Breaking a beta…. creating a pick up artist.

Back to my friend RJ…

RJ is not the most Beta of Beta’s but he is a little more Beta then he is Alpha, especially regarding the SMP and dealing with women. Not the biggest Blue Pill dude around but not full on Red Pill either. That came to a sudden stop last night.

Do you know what they say about jumping out of airplanes? Its not the jumping that kills you but the stopping; the Sudden Stop Syndrome and RJ’s sudden stop last night killed the Beta in him.

One of my cardinal rules for the SMP is, always have a side piece because she always has a side piece. She might be fucking him, or maybe she has Beta orbiters waiting in the wings but she has options and you are only one of them. Hell most likely not even her favorite option. Well that and it keeps your frame strong. No need to put up with much bullshit from a woman if your roster is 4 deep and three other chicks are waiting to spread their legs for you.

 

Any rate we were sitting around drinking pretty hard last night when his girl Blondie starts doing her fitness test thing, RJ do you like me, RJ do you have other women RJ I want this and that from you and I like you so much, you make me feel so safe and you are so nice to me… you’re the prefect man for me etc etc but I don’t know where we stand etc etc. We’ll she asks him “are we mutually exclusive?…. RTJ’s autonomic answer is of course we are, because RJ couldn’t fathom operating any other way. Well after RJ answered her, Blondie said she needed to cut some people lose then. Damn. All this time RJ was doing the nice guy thing and Blondie was spinning plates.

 

I could see RJ getting ready to explode, Blondie was drunk and clueless, so I grab RJ by the arm and pull him outside into the cold. Now here’s the thing, RJ could have exploded with anger etc, vented his feelings of betrayal or he could choose to pick up the knowledge bombs I have been dropping on him. RJ is smart man, and a man who doesn’t cotton to being taken advantage of, which is what happens to nice guys in the dating world. Being a nice guy in the SMP is like taking water balloons to tank battle.

 

Any rate I talk him down from detonating things with Blondie, and RJ has made the promise to always spin plates and never lead with his wallet. He plans on dropping Blondie when he has two other girls in his rotation and he plans on making it a nuclear level “next” but for the now he is going to keep her around and use sex as a weapon, pushing her limits and comfort zones, demanding she do things for him and him to her that she would normally never do… He is hell bent on using her like she used him and I doubt he will ever go back to his nice guy ways. Its cost him to much of his soul

 

Folks want to know why men do what they do in the SMP, and the answer to that question is as variable as there are number of men but surely a goodly part of that repairable answer is because of women taught them

 

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134 thoughts on “Breaking a beta…. creating a pick up artist.

  1. Liz

    Had they spoken before and agreed to see each other exclusively?
    It doesn’t sound like it…at least, I must assume not or she wouldn’t have asked.

    Reply
    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Nice guys/ blue pill dudes assume that once the fucking starts its exclusive. It’s the way they are raised, they are also snipers and taught women are the same way

      Otherwise it sounds like you are trying to back Blondie’s play with the he should have known better/ chose better

      Reply
      1. theshadowedknight

        Actually, Ton, that is how these things work, now. Generally speaking, you are exclusive once you start having sex, but that is by no means a guarantee. It is common enough that being exclusive is no longer the default. If exclusivity is a requirement, that needs to be made clear. Otherwise, it is still a free for all.

        So yes, I will say it, he should have known better. He wanted to be comfortable with his illusions, and this is what happens. You do not wade into a free for all and complain when someone hits you from behind.

        The Shadowed Knight

      2. theshadowedknight

        Did you expect a woman to have higher standards? It does not matter how old she is, she is still a woman. She responds to the market without the limits of scruples or ideals. He ignored the reality at his own risk.

        Talks like a church girl? What does she do? Church girl banging a biker/soldier without a wedding? Not very church girl, is that? If you meet a woman in a bar, bang her without marrying her, then by what standard do you expect her to be faithful or exclusive?

        I think that your sense of outraged justice is getting the better of you. Look past that it happened to a friend, and consider the facts. Expecting better out of a woman that is not showing any other sign of being better is naive. Next her, but learn from it. If you want her to be yours and yours alone, make sure to be explicit on that point.

        By the way, that post I mentioned is not wanting to write. I cannot get from my thoughts to the page. No idea on a timeframe.

        The Shadowed Knight

      3. SFC Ton Post author

        Nope I am explaining things from RJ’s point of view

        Remember I claim women are incapable of fidelity and to always have more then one at a time for a host of reasons inculding she will always have other plates

      4. theshadowedknight

        Nothing unbiblical about being a vet or riding bikes. The point is that if you are playing your bad boy creds to get laid, you are not operating under traditional rules. You do not get to complain about how she is not following the rules if you are not, either. That she is not following your rules, sure, but he never told her his rules, he assumed.

        If you want the protections of tradition, you do not get to pick and choose which ones you follow. You are either following the rules, or you are not. All those traditions and rules existed for very good reasons. If you are picking up women at a bar, you have no realistic expectations that she is in earnest about her church girl rules.

        The Shadowed Knight

      5. theshadowedknight

        You do not pick up women at a bar/go to a bar to meet men, start fucking before you are married, and still call yourself traditional. That is not how that works, like it or not.

        A traditional girl does not go to the bars, does not sleep around. A traditional girl gets married, has children, and finds something valuable to do.

        Likewise, a traditional man does not expect a slut to be anything but what she is. A traditional man marries a good woman, has children, and takes care of his family and his people.

        The Shadowed Knight

      6. Liz

        “Otherwise it sounds like you are trying to back Blondie’s play with the he should have known better/ chose better”

        I don’t know Blondie aside from what you’ve mentioned here…and from that I can only discern that she puts the ass in class.
        But from the sound of everything I’ve read in the sphere sex has become practically like a handshake (and there’s not a lot here to indicate otherwise), so from that perspective I was curious why he’d be surprised.

        Like BV, I don’t share. I’ve only had two partners in my entire life…and yeah, we made a verbal commitment to see each other exclusively BEFORE having sex. Even in the early nineties.

      7. theasdgamer

        I’m partially with Ton and partially with the Knight. Blondie was doing false advertising. I’ve seen that before. My engaged fling hid me out in her dorm room so that no one would know that she was cheating. My college gf–who originally had another bf when she met me and whom claimed she loved–billed herself as traditional (played the piano at church) and she wanted to bump uglies with me. My wife was totally honest. A unicorn. Rare, but they do exist.

        Otoh, RJ should be more realistic about the SMP and women’s rampant false advertising. I think that Ton’s post makes it clear that RJ has done some disconnection from the Bue Pill Matrix.

        So how do you recognize a real unicorn?

        1. They keep themselves away from other d1ck when you’re not present. If you’re far removed, as in overseas fighting a war, she lives with your family or with hers.
        2. They don’t have slutty friends.
        3. They don’t dress slutty in public.
        4. They are honest about sex only occurring in marriage.
        5. They only date one man at a time and break it off quickly when they see no future.
        6. They don’t do Girls’ Night Out where d1ck is present.

        Field Report: Oxytocin Addiction from Dancing

        I am in avoidance mode with one married broad I’ve blogged about. I’m finding other places to dance on the night I would normally dance with her. I decided this last night after dancing with her during a lesson. Quitting that dance class, too. I need to clear my head of this oxytocin addiction. I assume that it will take four months since that’s how long it took with my fling to clear my head. Do I tell her? Nah. She’ll figure it out. I’ll text her three times–after two weeks, after a month, after two months. Then I’ll be back dancing two weeks later, if I like.

      8. SFC Ton Post author

        Oh yes Liz and TSK are correct but the point is RJ played the game as women and society would have men act. It failed, again, and now another ” where have all the good men gone” kind of man is gone and a cad is born.

        That’s the point of the thread.

        False advertising is what chicks do. Men are the honest agents in the SMP(by and large), creating their own failures by playing an honest game with card cheats. Deeds not words.

  2. BuenaVista

    Thank goodness for alcohol and Blondie’s low tolerance for same.

    Even when I was blue pill I knew enough to tell women “I don’t share.” I stumbled into the necessity of this because I mostly met women online. And even the ones who professed ga-ga enthusiasm for me would keep their online profiles active, whereas as soon as I met someone I liked I hid mine. I’ve witnessed this behavior with women who have made me a marriage target. So even if you are someone’s dreamboat, you’re still Mr. Right Now, not Mr. Right — if someone better comes alone. And the fact is, someone’s always going to be taller, richer or have a bigger plane. Or, someone in a woman’s imagination is. The most difficult principle of red pill, for me, is Rollo’s maxim: women love opportunistically — women’s love is contingent. But I see it even with those who profess deepest affection.

    Reply
  3. redpillgirlnotes

    I think shadow knight has a point, not to say blondie was by any means “right” in her actions. But a blondie w store bought double Ds, as you have described her, well that doesn’t sound like someone who isn’t working the physical assets to the hilt, church or no. If she wants his, or any man’s fidelity and commitment, she’d be smarter to be exclusive wo being asked, like from day one. Not to wait until (and possibly not even when) he asks. Lots of girls try to play the game by what they see as the “good for the goose, good for the gander” rules but it just doesn’t work like that. It’s apparently a lesson she’s about to learn the hard way if she truly wanted to be w RJ, which I doubt or she wouldn’t have risked it like she did. Trust is easily broken, near impossible to reclaim. She’s shown her hand, and it won’t change no matter what pretty lies she spins. I know a few like her, they talk the talk well, but their actions reveal their (un)true nature, and that nature ain’t going to change.

    Reply
    1. SFC Ton Post author

      See that’s the thing : girls are usually playing the game on the sly, betas are following the script they were giving, playing the game on the level and getting crushed.

      RJ should know better but indoctrination is a bitch.

      Course RJ is likely to see his SMP value raise with his red pill learning while Blondie’s will only decline.

      She also cut her own throat so to speak at our local as RJ is beloved by all.

      Reply
  4. redpillgirlnotes

    @ ton RJ is lucky to have someone telling him this. I know a guy who sounds similar who is getting yanked around by a gal so bad it is downright embarrassing! But she’s good at saying what he wants to hear and buys it despite all the evidence of the contrary. I am starting to wonder if he has a cuckhold fetish, I mean why would any guy tolerate that behavior otherwise and come back for more? Yet he does…thinking he’ll win her over by being the good guy who is there no matter what… and predictably she loathes him for it.

    Reply
    1. SFC Ton Post author

      ewwww that maybe true but is a repulsive thought

      In that fucked up way that seems to be normal these days I am “glad” this happened to RJ. Now he can deal with reality. Ugly reality liberates us, lies enslave us. Maybe RJ will settle into something long term one day but he will do so with his eyes open

      as for the rest, its what Beta’s do. Heartbreaking but there it id

      Reply
      1. redpillgirlnotes

        Agreed, better to know than be in the dark. The truth will set you free.

        As for the guy I know, he seems to be unable to emotionally detach and unfortunately she’s none to quick to because he does all this helpful stuff for her, both financially and errands and such, which is crappy she’d use him out of convenience but basically that’s what it is. I truly don’t know how some gals live with themselves, but they do! Sad thing is he’s a good guy who would be there for her and yet she just takes it for granted while she does the floosy barfly thing. She’s good looking but at 37 and w/ her lifestyle, the wall is not far ahead. And actually it would serve her right. Anyway…. Hopefully he wises up, too! Actually he’s lucky in that he would marry her in a heartbeat but she won’t do it and luckily she’s not smart enough to realize she could take him for easy cash and prizes if she would so blessing in disguise there!

      2. BuenaVista

        Depressing. But I approached that level of idiocy, so I suppose we have to be sympathetic.

        I was enamored of a French woman who owned a restaurant on Capital Hill. She explained that she was on the rebound from the chief of staff of a certain senator. I was too stupid to realize that there was no reason for her to tell me that.

        I courted her for a year, culminating in a trip to Vail with son #1, and promised to build her a tennis court and a lap pool.

        Of course, the CoS called. He was now CEO of a railroad in the hinterlands and had more dough than I. She fled.

        And of course, he dumped her after six months, because he was now a centi-millionaire, and she was just a charming French girl who used to have a restaurant. She got $400K and a car.

        Guess who got the full court press? The ‘Just Kidding, I really liked you best!’ Fortunately, I was smart enough not to take her back. We did have some laughs while she spilled wine all over my living room rug, ruining it. Even my neighbors, who were both Navy aviators, thought she was charismatic.

        Women are capricious beyond belief. Bloom’s friend needs to take up woodworking or something. Bloom should slap him. He’s going down if he doesn’t wake up.

      3. theasdgamer

        @ BV

        But I approached that level of idiocy, so I suppose we have to be sympathetic.

        Me, too. Back when I was 21 I spent about 250 hours over the course of 8 months making out with my gf every day. Lots of oxytocin was produced during making out and strong bonding resulted. Then she broke up with me after I decided not to go to med school and when I had made her very angry (I said stupid 5h1t). And I went through torture seeing her on campus every day for several months. Oneitis and bonding sucks after a breakup and when the Green-eyed Monster attacks. I learned my lesson after that experience.

        I was too stupid to realize that there was no reason for her to tell me that.

        Recently, the married broad (I’ll call her MB) who has been chasing me volunteered that a guy I know with whom she was dancing (he doesn’t normally come to this dance event and is about ten years younger than MB) and talking a lot one night (and in whom her body language showed heavy investment) is an old friend whom she has known X years. Something seemed funny about her volunteering that. A couple of weeks later I asked her how long ago was she divorced. X years. (I asked her to go easy on me that night. She still asked me to dance five times that night and I never asked her. Keeping her options open and hoping for an opportunity. I started wondering who in our dancing social circle she has dated. Likely she has been hinting by volunteering who some of her favorite dance partners are.)

        Last week, she went to a venue new for her where this guy dances a lot. The penny drops. I recognized that the Green-eyed Monster was making an appearance and decided that it’s time for me to begin avoiding her until I get over the bonding.

        The guy will likely soft-Next her once he finds a younger plate to spin. And I care because?

        I hardly thought about MB last night when I was out with Mrs. Gamer. A woman friend whom I hadn’t seen in months was at the event and she came over and was very friendly with me. (Chasing a new skirt chases away thoughts of a problem woman.) This friend shared a couple of bottles of her beer with me once. And loaned me one of her hiking poles. Very sweet. And is warm towards me and respects the limits I set. This makes me fond of her.

        Mrs. Gamer has also been sweet to me recently.

        Mrs. Gamer, despite her flaws, looks better for me than MB if I want to keep my sanity. I expect her to go insane Saturday afternoon right before I go out dancing again. We’re going to a party out of town on Friday (which means that I won’t be going out dancing solo on Friday), so her weekend insanity will be delayed a bit.

        Gotta stay philosophical. Pussy is just pussy. Keep to my mission and don’t spend too much time thinking about women.

      1. redpillgirlnotes

        Yep gamer, he’s playing the chump. After several rounds, kinda hard to feel sorry for him. He’s a good looking guy, former marine, now union, set financially, would have no trouble getting a whole lot better. I can’t figure it except he’s got that oxitocin addiction or something? People are weird.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        yep oneitist leads to captain save ho… once again this is something men are told this is right and just and the way to win “fair maiden’s” used up vagina… I mean heart

      3. theasdgamer

        Yeah, probably feels “in love”. It’s intoxicating and addicting. That’s why I’m avoiding one married broad. She’s already moved on to an ex, though she still shows me interest. I think she’d like to spin me as an extra plate, but married gals aren’t on my menu. I draw the line at flirting with them. I’m sure that we had some crossed signals. She probably reads that as ambivalence. I can be very attracted to a woman and keep her at a distance. If she doesn’t believe my words–that’s on her.

        Yeah, oxytocin or vasopressin or whatever gets men hooked is this guy’s problem. He gets a dose every time he sees her. It’s possible to work around the addiction and bonding, but dealing with it is still a b1tch. Makes me cuss from time to time. It sometimes causes me to give her a little too much attention.

        I lived through the first ten years of my marriage with being bonded to my college gf and hated it. (And there had been several months of daily torture of seeing my college gf on campus, sometimes with another guy.) My wife never suspected. The motto “Love the one you’re with” helped a lot. Bonding can lead to Oneitis, but a man can avoid Oneitis even if bonding occurs.

        I don’t recall ever being “in love” with my wife. I think that I avoided that feeling after my experience with my college gf. I wrote a post about how being “in love” is bad for a man.

      4. SFC Ton Post author

        Oxywhatever….. sounds like betaness. Not a slam most men have that issue because their count is to low

        We are living in bizaro world where whatever is decent about a man is punished

  5. theasdgamer

    “http://www.prevention.com/sex/better-sex/easy-ways-increase-oxytocin-levels?slide=6”

    Oxytocin has a baseline of zero and a half-life of three to five minutes, which means that it doesn’t occur without a stimulus and it degrades rapidly….Dr Paul Zak, known as “Dr. Love”, did a study where he drew blood before and after a night of dancing and found that oxytocin levels rose 11% regardless of age or gender. http://www.speakingtango.com/tag/oxytocin/

    Reply
      1. theasdgamer

        Bonding can happen without seeking it, if you’re unaware. I’m certain I was gamed. I wasn’t aware that I was being gamed. Now, I’m planning to cut the bonding by avoiding the woman.

        I don’t even want bonding with Mrs. Gamer.

        What one PhD says on something like this needs review by other pointy heads. If a consensus develops, there’s usually a baby there somewhere.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        The last thing I trust is the words of college folks especially if they have gone through that much indoctrination…. I mean schooling.

        Even the stem guy’s are heavily twisted most of the tims

  6. redpillgirlnotes

    @ bv sadly I have slapped him and yet he still carries on like some puppy that’s been kicked. Ironically it was him that told me “actions not words” when I was dating Mad Max and helped me see the light there. Ending that relationship was what led me to the red pill. So I try to return the favor, advise him to save himself but no luck so far. My fiancé even sat down man to man w him last time he found out she was texting her “ex” that he caught her in bed with that she still loved him! This gal used to be my neighbor, so I know all to well what her game is. He says she’s his karma and maybe so, I guess before this he was a real pua, love em and leave em, say whatever they want to hear. The one who can’t be caught? I don’t know but it’s really all quite pathetic! Meanwhile she’s got several guys all paying her electric bill every month! (I am not kidding!) She’s like the female version of roosh v or something. Looks like Demi Moore, the younger years. Quite the vixen. If you remember my story of Hercules, this is his ex. But not the ex above. Oh and yes, she’s still doing him, too! I wish I was making this up!

    Reply
    1. Liz

      Daymn.
      I think this about epitomizes the statement: It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

      Reply
      1. redpillgirlnotes

        Indeed Liz! I even tried to tell her, “Look, for his own sake, cut him loose.” Her reply? “But he got my kids $500 in Christmas presents…maybe I better wait until after the holidays?” True story! (Sadly…) Like I said, he is lucky she is not smart enough to realize she could marry him and take half his retirement and other assets! Meanwhile, who is she hung up on? The “ex” who kicks her to the curb, cheats on her, won’t commit, etc. Go figure! I think some people want to be miserable…

      2. Liz

        “I even tried to tell her, “Look, for his own sake, cut him loose.”
        You might want to watch it. She’s likely to blame you if and when she dumps him, and he sounds hopelessly myopic enough to believe it, and he’ll blame you.
        I’ve been in that position before.

      3. theasdgamer

        He’s not thinking with his You-Know-What. It’s oxytocin/vasopressin driving his thinking. As you noted, no reason is involved. Except the Cash Sucker’s.

      1. Liz

        I know that’s crude but…I’m seriously wondering if something new has been added.
        What on earth could she possibly do to make a person put up with that?
        Thinking out loud…again…

      2. theasdgamer

        Betas…and alphas both. Betas more, obviously. Betas won’t even have a clue what is going on. Alphas may know, but they may still make mistakes due to the mind-altering effects of the drugs. Alphas can recover from their mistakes better than betas.

        Those drugs really only are a problem when I’m face to face with one broad. The solution is to avoid her until that’s no longer a problem.

      3. SFC Ton Post author

        The very definition of alpha in this context is women being to far down your list to have this issue. Being sprung up on some chick is all beta

    2. BuenaVista

      Well, nothing to do then but watch this slow-motion train wreck. He’s been warned, instructed, and assisted. At this point he *wants* to get creamed, it appears.

      Reply
      1. theasdgamer

        Maybe Bloom could talk some guy into seducing the cash-grabber and video-ing their sex and show the vid to the cash-cow “alpha”. A nice touch would be to record them talking about the cash-cow and laughing at him.

  7. redpillgirlnotes

    @ Ton w your training, or life experience, or both, you may be more able to put mind over matter than most. I have told this guy point blank, as probably anyone who listens to him for ten minutes has, but to be able to keep emotions/attraction/desire from clouding judgement is a skill I think few develop in everyday life. You only do it because you HAVE to, likely to survive. That creates its own dilemma but when it comes to feeling unable to control being someone’s b*tch, probably not then. I am sure that’s what got you through what many could not.

    Reply
    1. redpillgirlnotes

      … But It would be an interesting psychological experiment to put you and her in a room together, see who comes out victor! Lol. Knowing her, it’s a toss up! Ya’ll might be a match made in heaven! Or it might be the end of the world. Hard to say really! I don’t k is any round here that can contain her but the one who could she would worship and follow to her grave. Or maybe kill. Hard to say! Lol. That ex she’s hung up on is no alpha. He may seem so to her but I think he’s a p*ssy myself!

      Reply
      1. redpillgirlnotes

        I’ll let her know about your generous offer. Lol! By golly I should go I to the matchmaking business! Get a cage and some rope ready, you’ll need it!

        I tried to tell her lovesick beau how this works but he said, “I don”t want to play games…” If he would, she’d be all his! She’s textbook red pill, really, needs extra heavy on the dread. I tried to tell him…

      2. redpillgirlnotes

        @ ton as I think about this, she is quite domestic… Has her own housekeeping biz now, loves cleaning. Not as good of a cook as me but I can send her with recipes. If you keep her, will you send me a bike in trade??? 🙂

      3. redpillgirlnotes

        @ ton hope it was obvious I was joking, while I am sure you’d win the imaginary cage match, thing is you don’t need those problems!

        But now that I think about this, I seem to recall our pal Sumo makes whips, hummm, maybe I should suggest she head north?

        Again…kidding! 😉 ebul thoughts! I hope her guy figures it out, nexts her for his own good, I really do…

      4. SFC Ton Post author

        I have this… trick where I can not care in such away or brings women to heel. Some of my friends joke about me running a training academy for women but what they fail to understand is its non-transferable.

    2. SFC Ton Post author

      Naw it’s more cultural then anything else. No one would respect a man who behaved like that when and where I grew up and for whatever reason, I have always been driven by the quest to be respected by my peers

      Reply
  8. theasdgamer

    You know, Ton, I think that what bothered me most about this one broad is not that she cheated by using a mind-altering drug that my own body created or that she’s married or that she’s almost my age, but that in our wrestling match she actually knocked me down, which no other broad has been able to do since my college gf during my semi-blue pill phase. (Mrs. Gamer, of course, can knock me down since we’re married.) Usually I just observe chicks’ antics and laugh at them.

    And, Ok, I’m beta. IDGAF. I just want the bonding to be done.

    Reply
    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Yea dude I can see how that would suck and this isn’t a slam but I don’t think you are cut out for this kind of stuff since you bond so readily. For you it’s a dangerous game, to you and possibly a marriage which you value

      No shame in it but it’s something to ponder

      Reply
      1. theasdgamer

        Appreciate the thought and will ponder. Pondering.

        The oxytocin bonding has been a one-off in the last year+ that I’ve been out dancing; hasn’t happened before in the decades that I’ve been married.

        The broad asks men to dance a lot. She asked me to dance every time the five times that we danced the last time we danced. (If I asked her as much, we could easily dance ten times together in one night.) I assume that she’s someone who sees something she wants and goes for it. Not above cheating to get what she wants. I know that she has a feral attraction for me from the primate wide-eyed-and smile-shyly thing she did. She wanted to be isolated with me. Twice, maybe three times. Yeah, I gave her some signals that she could interpret as mixed. Not from my perspective since I viewed The No-Funny-Business Chat ™ we had as the primary policy for me. She knows about dancing and oxytocin bonding. She has lots of experience dancing socially. Likely has used this oxytocin-bonding strategy before. So, I conclude that she was deliberately gaming me. She’s unusual and probably just someone I have to watch once I get over the bonding. Lesson learned–don’t dance so much with any broad.

        I know about how to calibrate oxytocin bonding and dancing now. I have excellent self-control with women–possibly legendary level. Haven’t even locked lips with another woman during my marriage. Flirted some, of course. And I have lots of inhibitions from being autistic, lol. For someone else, this might be dangerous. The emotional angle is more difficult for me to handle. The broad has tended to avoid platonic bonding (not much convo), so the emotional angle is limited to oxytocin. She doesn’t want to mess up her marriage; she says that her husband trusts her, so she can go out solo.

        The biggest problem for my marriage is my wife’s insecurity. It shows up when I go out dancing solo and can disappear the following day if I give her enough comfort and pass her loyalty tests. She didn’t show any problem when an attractive woman friend hugged me when Mrs. Gamer was sitting next to me.

        When Mrs. Gamer talks about an open marriage, I just have to ignore her and wait for her to settle down. Give her comfort in the meantime.

        I keep my maxim in mind: pussy is just pussy. My book about dancing and losing weight are my mission, so I’m not gonna stay home. Working on my book also means that I have to analyze what’s going on when I go out dancing, so I’m gonna think about women more than I normally would.

      2. theshadowedknight

        This is why I cannot have a woman. I have the same problem with bonding. It is infuriating, because the attachment sneaks up on me and all of a sudden I have a chemical dependency on a woman I have barely ever touched. Miserable. Just enough contact to get by, while painfully going through the withdrawals. Not to mention the difficulty of running game on a woman who has a hold on my unconscious mind.

        I cannot bang women to numb the addiction, so I just go through cycles, over and over. Once I get over one woman, another will get me. Maybe in time, enough of this will work to numb the strength on its own. If not, I stand condemned to go through life tormented by that which I can never have, and only anger takes the edge off. I am interested in what I will look like in my thirties.

        The Shadowed Knight

      3. SFC Ton Post author

        In a better more sane time, that would be an asset not a liability but I think it has less to do with N count and more to do with personal inclination and how a ma was raised. Though mostly like more genetic then training as is the way with most personality traits

    2. redpillgirlnotes

      That is actually very sweet shadow knight, it unspeakably sucks that you are in a smp that requires you to quelch that. I hope u against all odds find a gal worthy of those noble feelings who recognizes how precious they are. Sigh…men really are the true romantics.

      Reply
      1. theshadowedknight

        Yeah, it is sweet, but sweet does not warm my bed or have my children. Sweet is just a nice way of saying weak. Unfortunately, the method of ridding myself of this type of weakness is prohibited to me.

        The Shadowed Knight

      2. theshadowedknight

        The way to wear out the bonding is to have sex with as many other women as you can. Bang ten other women is the usual metric. As an observant Christian, this method is off limits.

        I get one and done. If I do a poor job of selecting my wife, I end up even worse than I am now. Even if I do well, I have to make sure that I do not bond to her. Effectively, I have to not care about the woman I marry. Better to remain alone.

        The Shadowed Knight

      3. theasdgamer

        Knight, there is another way to break the bonding. Avoid the woman and chase other skirts. Doesn’t mean that you have to catch them. Just chasing them is enough to keep your mind occupied.

      4. redpillgirlnotes

        @ Ton it is true that the bible has many examples of multiple wives, but I think they were actually married, yes? It seems that disappears in the new testament, maybe it was a church ruling, I am not so familiar with it. In many ways it makes sense, goodness knows I have myself wished for a kitchen wife, and a laundry wife, and a garden wife, and, and, and… but I dunno, for me it is hard to imagine. I like having my guy to myself. I can hire the extra help as needed! 😉

  9. theasdgamer

    Knight,

    Effectively, I have to not care about the woman I marry.

    Nah, there’s a big diff between not caring and not bonding. I’m not bonded to Mrs. Gamer, but I care deeply about her and her welfare. There’s no oxytocin bonding is all.

    Reply
    1. theshadowedknight

      Right now, there is no difference. I gave to figure out what makes it happen, then avoid that. That means a lot of trial and error and pain just to have sex with somebody who I have to keep at a distance anyway. Playing the game at work is one thing. Having to play it at home is another thing altogether. I do not enjoy it, so I see little point to it, and I do not want to remove my one place to rest and relax.

      The Shadowed Knight

      Reply
      1. redpillgirlnotes

        @ showknight, I have been thinking about this all day. Maybe you could define what you mean by not bond? For example, my fiance, he is really good to me and cares for me very much. But it’s still very clear he’s the man. I don’t run the show, and I don’t want to. I am not sure I would want to marry him if he said he was not bonded to me though?

      2. theshadowedknight

        Girl, I do not know what it would look like to not bond to a woman for whom I had feelings. It is really difficult to explain, but it is a way my body tells me to go get a woman. It did the same thing before I learned game, but I did not know how to do anything useful. Now I do, and so the impulse changes. Where I would have thought, “I should be nice to her and make friends and then I will get my chance,” now I think, “Tell her to come get coffee because you want to get to know her.” Except I already tried to gauge her interest and she does not seem to be interested.

        Then I have the more… aggressive impulses. The thoughts that go, “Grab her, take her, and make her yours!” The old Viking instincts that want to chase her and catch her, throw her over my shoulder, take her back to my home, and have my way with her.

        It is not making me weak in the knees, but it is not suitable for combat dating. However it may have been useful in another time, for now it is a handicap. Not civilized enough for honest intent and hard work to be rewarded, too civilized to let me abduct and ravish her.

        The Shadowed Knight

      3. theasdgamer

        Ton, good quote. The early Hebrews were a group of nomadic tribes ruled by priests; the later Hebrews were a civilization of cities ruled by a king.

        Mrs. Gamer tells me that married men don’t behave the way that I do, going out solo. (Subtext: I’m uncivilized.) She says that I act like I’m looking for a new mate. Dread Game is working. It’s not as “dread-ful” as getting a gf on the side, but is more dread-ful than mere flirting in my social circle. (The thing is, I don’t flirt much because there’s so much coming at me all the time.)

  10. thedeti

    @ The Shadowed Knight:

    “ This is why I cannot have a woman. I have the same problem with bonding. It is infuriating, because the attachment sneaks up on me and all of a sudden I have a chemical dependency on a woman I have barely ever touched. Miserable. Just enough contact to get by, while painfully going through the withdrawals. Not to mention the difficulty of running game on a woman who has a hold on my unconscious mind.

    “I cannot bang women to numb the addiction, so I just go through cycles, over and over. Once I get over one woman, another will get me. Maybe in time, enough of this will work to numb the strength on its own. If not, I stand condemned to go through life tormented by that which I can never have, and only anger takes the edge off.”
    _________________________
    To figure out what is really going on here, it would help to know what level of interaction you’re talking about with all these women you “bond” and “attach” to in serial fashion. Are these women you are dating or have dated? Women you’ve had serious relationships with? Women you work with? Women you have just seen or run across in everyday life? I don’t think the problem is “getting over” a woman; I think the issue is identifying what is really going on with your thought patterns and addressing that.

    To me there’s obsession, there’s limerence, there’s attachment, and then there’s bonding. Obsession is where a man has met a woman, hasn’t talked to her, hasn’t dated her, but he knows her or knows who she is. He thinks about her all the time, to the point of preoccupation and dysfunction. Usually the obsession is sexual in nature. All this is over a woman he’s never interacted with. Classic example is the man who commits criminal acts to win the affections or attentions of a famous woman.

    Limerence can look like obsession but it almost always involves the early stages of dating. I don’t know, but I strongly suspect, that limerence is far more common than most people know. Limerence (what is also called infatutation or “crushing”) are those extreme roller coaster feelings people get when they first start dating someone new and it seems to be going well. You think about the other person all the time. Cognition about that person involves planning and rehearsing interactions, and fantasizing. The feelings go from one side to the other, from high euphoria to deep despair, humiliation and disappointment. In limerence the person feels fear of rejection and extreme fear that their affections are not being reciprocated. Some researchers and clinicians believe limerence has a pathological component and is evidence of disordered thinking.

    Here’s a helpful article on limerence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

    Attachment (at least to me) happens after dating for a time, and a relationship is established. Mutual sexual attraction is present, or at least is apparent. There might or might not be sexual intercourse or stimulation but there is sexual activity in the form of touching, petting, and deep kissing. They’re not committed to each other, and not bonded to each other, but they’re headed in that direction.

    For men, at least, bonding happens over time, only after attachment, and only after sexual intercourse. Bonding (at least to my understanding) isn’t about the high highs and low lows of limerence. It isn’t even about the sexual attraction or all the sexual activity, at least not entirely. A man bonded to a woman feels a deep, deep sense of security and trust in himself, his woman, and his relationship to her and with her. He is at peace with her and around her. He is completely unguarded to her and with her in body, mind and spirit. He trusts her implicitly with his innermost self (though perhaps not entirely with the money or any major decisionmaking).

    (For women, bonding happens with sexual intercourse. If she is admitting a man’s penis into her body, she is bonding to that man whether she likes it or intends it or not.)

    TSK, I’m going on what little you’re describing here, and I am not a psychologist, but what you’re talking about sounds like either obsession or limerence. Obsession isn’t healthy, of course, and you should get help for that if your thinking patterns and emotions are tending in that direction with women you haven’t talked to or dated. You should find ways to distract yourself from that sort of thinking by redirecting efforts into things like work, exercise, time with hobbies and other friends.

    This sounds to me like limerence. You’re talking about things like feeling attached and bonded to women you’ve barely touched; and being deeply disappointed and angry when either your feelings aren’t reciprocated or it otherwise just doesn’t work out. These feelings and cognitive patterns seem to bother you at a fundamental level, to the point of anger and distraction. And it’s repetitive – it’s a pattern you describe happening over and over to you and with you.

    The thing is that dating and relationships can fail for any number of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with you. Consider that one of the things you might need to do is to remind yourself that you have some of these thought patterns and consciously avoid them. Consider that some of the things you are doing might be sabotaging these dates in their early stages – things like showing interest levels in the person out of proportion to the current status of the relationship; overreacting to things going on in the relationship, etc. I don’t know this is happening with you; but it could be, and I’d suggest your reviewing their histories to see if that was going on or indicates a pattern. Hell, it could be just that you’re meeting crappy women.

    Another thing that helps is to consciously avoid investing so much of yourself into a brief, budding relationship. This is probably one of the reasons Game teachers tell men never to show any indicia of commitment early on. For the first few dates, no commitment beyond a little time and a pittance of money — the price of a drink or two, a rented video, maybe — MAYBE — dinner at Applebees or Olive Garden, and no more than a couple of hours. Perhaps some of it is that men are showing signs of commitment because they think this is what girls want; but maybe some of it is fear of rejection due to limerent thought patterns. One way to combat that is to assiduously avoid displaying commitment AT ALL, not even to yourself. Don’t offer it, don’t show it, don’t talk about it, not even to yourself. Displaying interest is fine. Displaying signs of commitment is not.

    Instead of spending time considering and thinking on the early parts of a relationship, and pressing hard to make them happen, it’s better to hang back and let them develop on their own. It’s better to allow her to feel the deep emotions while you concentrate on logistics and assessing her suitability for you. Don’t let yourself feel deeply about someone you barely know. Don’t let yourself feel deeply about a woman who isn’t showing signs of interest. Don’t invest time or emotion into such a woman. Make her show that emotion first. Better to invest your time into yourself and doing things you want, rather than in a woman you’ve been on two dates with.

    TSK, I hope this helps, even if what I said is not exactly what is going on with you.

    Reply
    1. theshadowedknight

      Deti, actually, I would like to talk with you. This conversation is getting to long and too off topic, so send me an email. myusername(@)hotmail(.) com.

      The Shadowed Knight

      Reply
      1. SFC Ton Post author

        For what it’s worth, I think some men are just more prone to this bonding thing then other men. And almost all men are more prone to it then women…. until he’s been married awhile.

  11. thedeti

    I guess another couple of things that come to mind are:

    1. Never pedestalize any woman, or women in general. Never expect a woman to be anything other than what she is — a flawed human being. She’s not a nursemaid, a therapist, a drinking buddy, a “best friend”, or a confidante. And she should never, ever be considered a savior. You should never ever fall into a mindset of “the sun rises and sets with her” or “I can’t live without her”. The sun will rise and set regardless of what she does; and you most certainly can live without her. You lived before without her; you can do it again if you have to.

    2. All relationships have expiration dates. Decades long marriages have expiration dates because almost all the time, one of the partners dies first. Half of all marriages expire in divorce. Most male-female relationships expire because one of the partners just doesn’t want to be with the other one anymore.

    3. In the beginning stages of a relationship, always presume it will fail. Most of them do fail inside of six months.

    Reply
    1. BuenaVista

      I think that the last scale to fall from my eyes (post-redpill) is the simple maxim that I believe Rollo crafted: men love idealistically, women opportunistically.

      Worse, some men (e.g., I) feel vivified by the realization of idealistic sentiment and thought. I *like* saying to a woman, “I will take care of you, don’t worry about it.”

      During my red pill indoctrination, the last few years, I resisted this insight and its implications, in part because I probably do love idealistically, which often has been code for “stupidly.” It’s what I know how to do, I spent 25 years doing it, it’s a habit. Intellectually I was catching on, but emotionally, habits endure longer than we might wish. But then a woman began to love me, truly, and revealed that even she loves opportunistically. As, of course, did my ex-wives, which experiences made sense once I stopped kidding myself. I think I have my RP baccalaureate now.

      As a man I was raised to serve abstractions — idealistically and without compromise — and perhaps a central drama or problem in any credible man’s life is the extent to which he succeeds or fails in doing so. Love and family, obviously, are two such abstractions; if we practice love and family opportunistically, we are absolute failures.

      But this habit of idealistic mind and spirit became outmoded once women saw freedom and rewards in hypergamy. And a major challenge for a man is realizing that his desire to bond, or at least experience intimacy in some fashion, subjects him primarily to the risk of being Mr. Right Now, not Mr. Right. So we have to get over it. None of us like to think of ourselves as stupid or possessing only commodified, transitory value, but women find it amusing or unconcerning, once, or if, they see a better deal across the street. Women put men in three columns — 1) marry him, 2) fuck him yeah!, and 3) I wish he would fuck off and die. We need to remember that whichever of the first two columns we’re in, being transferred to the third is a trivial and common event.

      Reply
  12. thedeti

    BV:
    Good stuff. And, apropos to what others were saying before: I continue to be amazed at the fact that a man caring so much and expending so much effort on a relationship tends to strangle and suffocate that relationship.

    My marriage improved almost immediately after I stopped caring so much about it and working so hard at it. I couldn’t believe it when it first happened, really. It’s said that relationships work best when the man engrafts his woman onto/into his life; makes her secondary to his mission so she can help him fulfill that mission. It’s almost as if a woman doesn’t want to be the mission; doesn’t want to be his reason for living. Not only should a man not put her on a pedestal; she doesn’t want to be there in the first place — probably because deep down, she knows she’s just as flawed and imperfect as he is; probably more so.

    Man’s happiness: “I will”. Woman’s happiness: “He wills.”

    Reply
    1. BuenaVista

      I’m redirecting all of my capacity for idealism this year toward my work, and children. I think I wasted too much of it (previously) on romantic drama, and its follow-up (petitions for fairness and justice). So far it’s made me more attractive to women, though they seem to get angry more often (at my intransigence), and more episodic attentions.

      Reply
      1. theasdgamer

        +1, ton. Mrs. Gamer ranted at me last night. I excused myself and left to sleep in my favorite chair. This a.m. I ignored her for 10 min. after she came downstairs, then went upstairs and invaded her space, left, came back and offered my cheek for her to kiss, kissed her briefly on the lips, left, came back, nuzzled her neck briefly, walked about ten feet away. Then opened the dialogue. She has said that everything I told her about my latest “ex” confirms her suspicions, lol. Never mind that I was blindsided, it was still my fault. Her frame that she gets to judge me is still a huge problem. From a biblical perspective, it is disrespectful and unsubmissive and rebellious and sinful as h311.

        So, upshot of the dialogue is that she said that she will be keeping her eyes on me. I made the two-fingered “I’m watching you” gesture from my eyes towards her. I invited her to go out when I go dancing and help me evaluate how other women perceive me. She is also supposed to come hang on my neck from time to time and kiss my cheek. Wonder if she has the ovaries to do that.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        I’d not put up with a 1/10th of that

        My ex tried to do the sleep on the couch thing with me. I moved all.her stuff into the spare bedroom, I pay the bills, my house, my bed, my bedroom and she could sleep on the floor but I would not leave the master bedroom or bed.

      3. theasdgamer

        Mrs. Gamer wants me in bed with her to warm her and cuddle. I prefer sleeping in my favorite chair because I have reflux. I left because I wanted to, not because she wanted me to. She wanted me to stay.

  13. Liz

    I like Billy Cyrus’ Achy Breaky heart.
    In that video with his big studley mullet, he’s like, totally giving me the eye.

    Reply
    1. theasdgamer

      He was looking at the cowboy, actually. Long hair and pretty face are the tell.

      I wouldn’t be giving you the eye. Like, something else, totally. My hand to shake. You thought what? Perv. Heh.

      Reply
      1. Liz

        “He was looking at the cowboy, actually.”

        You know…that is exactly how I always imagined Miley was conceived (well, either that, or a jackal). How coincidental is THAT?

        “My hand to shake.”
        I never doubted you for a moment. 😉

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      RJ is on it Sumo

      Blondie no longer gets dates, diners out, movies etc but goes over to his place for leftovers and dick

      He no longer helps her, drives her to places etc.etc She no longer stays at his place when he isn’t there…. basically she is in the side piece slot.

      He has an additional plate. A much younger plate who is very cute in that nerd girl sort of way who is getting more of a boyfriend experience but not to the degree he would have done before

      Blondie knows she is in the side price slot and is trying to retake the higher ground and by upping her slut factor in bed, including trying to a range a night with her, a girl friend of her’s and RJ. A woman doesn’t value you if she isn’t bringing her A game in the sack.

      What I see is, RJ has Blondie in hand, she is desperate to get back her draft horse, but she broke that harness and doesn’t know why. RJ will not put that harness back on

      Nerd Girl is like 25 and really into RJ. She is from a non military town so RJ is a real life Johnny Wayne to her. She also has never seen much a real dating life (still college student) so right now it’s likely she sees RJ as both alpha fucks and beta bucks. She seems really into RJ, and we noticed she started copying some of my Girls behavior. Girl#1 is getting off on that one

      Reply
  14. theasdgamer

    Ton, I’m investigating the married-man-reserve instinct to keep distance from other women. Studies have been done that show that men in LTRs tend to keep more physical distance from other women than single men. I know that you’re skeptical about pointy-head studies and probably think that this is a beta thing if it even exists, but even single betas don’t seem to keep as much distance from women as married men.

    Anyway, I’m considering getting a plate ready to spin in case Mrs. Gamer decides to metamorph into the Ice Witch again. I’m finding that I have to take baby steps all over again. I still find lots of internal resistance to asking for phone nos. without a plausible reason. And I don’t feel comfortable doing anything more than an occasional incidental touch. It’s hard to imagine kissing a woman, much less making out, etc. Maybe if she’s hot enough and I’m thirsty enough? Idk.

    Reply
    1. SFC Ton Post author

      When I was married I did the Billy Graham thing; never alone with a woman who wasn’t my wife or kin. Worked for him but clearly a mistake when dealing with modern women etc.

      Reply
      1. BuenaVista

        Thing is Gamer, no matter how ingrained our discretion and reserve, the woman is thinking what we nice boys think is the unthinkable. And her feelings floodgates will open if shown the smallest, slightest crack in your gentlemanly facade.

        My older boy’s best friend was the daughter of my ex-wife’s best friend. I would be alone with her when picking him up. Finally, one day, I couldn’t help just smiling through a long pause, and she blurted out, “You’re looking at me as though we’re fucking.” And I surely wished that I had, in retrospect. She later walked out of her beautiful home, got on a plane to Switzerland with a boyfriend, never to return.

        A similar thing happened over the last five years out here on the tundra, though with a different outcome in the end. She swears she never knew I was interested in her, such was my careful mask.

      2. BuenaVista

        And of course, were we to attempt discussion of this phenomenon with a woman, she would loudly protest: NAWALT! you nasty man! Huh. They’re like that.

      3. theasdgamer

        @ BV

        The chemistry is out in the open. Also had a chat about the chemistry just being for fun. The main questions are timing, speed of escalation, and how far I want to take it. I’ve talked about my own inhibitions in general terms and this one gal is very cool about not trying to push things. But like you said, any opening will be acted on. Proceed with caution.

      1. Liz

        BV, as you can see, I turned into a dog. 😛
        I tried a new avatar, but switched it off after receiving this message on one of my favorite (non-sphere) forums:

        If (new.LizGravatar.hot > former.LizGravatar.hot)

        {

        Action = Fap;
        
}
        
else

        {

        Action = FapAnyway;

        }

        I swear, it was not lewd…

      2. Liz

        Inner bitch, theasdgamer?
        That must be my angel side. 😛
        (this new avatar really does conflict with my ebulness, though…I see it up there and feel bad for what I just posted, almost every time. Seems I should be talking about rainbows and fuzzy mittens, or something…)

  15. Richard Aubrey

    sfcton.
    Wonder if the Kephart book on our Southern Highlanders rang any of your bells. Starts out with too much topography, but gets going after that.
    Buried my dad in December. I was doing okay until the Honors. Lost it then. The Old Guard couldn’t have done it better.
    So how are you doing?

    Reply
  16. BuenaVista

    Off topic , but may interest a couple of readers: two new .380 defense rounds that penetrate like hardball, but because of their solid, cruciform shape, produce wound channels like 9mm hollow point. (Upon penetration, which again rivals that of 9mm, they corkscrew. They do not even deform when shot through 22 gauge sheet metal.) The reviewers contend this renders a .380 a carry choice that defends like a 9mm.

    https://www.full30.com/video/913d49f717a54171edcbd115c27efe5d?ref=bob

    Of course, this is just a technology that will be applied to 9mm, restoring the 9’s superiority. And the reviewer’s preference for the Glock 42 in summer will likely be replaced by last week’s announcement of the G43, which is the same form factor but chambered for 9.

    Reply

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