general Red Pill observations in the wild

I live a fairly busy life and this is something I would like to do more often. Its one thing to read about various Red Pill truths and another to have real world examples.

Women and apologies. As a rule, women don’t do them. I can think of exactly one honest and forth rite apology from a woman. The rest have came with qualifying statements or were carefully worded to be a non apology apology. Remember saving face/ status in the herd and indirect compunction is the way of women. They also apologize for a different reason then men. When I apologize it is because I did someone wrong which needs to addressed. Justice of a sorts in an unjust world. I say my piece and its done. If it is accepted and things go back to right, all is good. If not, I accept the others decision. When a woman apologizes she wants to keep a useful tool around, feel good about herself and look good for the herd.

Right after my divorce I got into an affair with a married women. A goodly long affair and I did not know she was married. Like we would spend weekends at each others place, do long weekends together etc. Then I am at a random party with some people I know and I hear the women folk gossip about this slut who cheats on her old man like ts her profession. I put two and two together, got something close to 5 and felt right bad. I was fond of the girl, and dumb enough to reckon it was mutually exclusive because she said so and I wasn’t real happy with banging some other dude’s beloved. Shortly after that her life falls apart, she is found out etc and its all in the open. Not about me, I already walked. Dump that bitch and bang 10 more. Any rate, her life is in the shitter and I get a call. She said she wanted to apologize etc etc and that she didn’t mean to hurt a good man. I said its ok, I’m over it and moved on. I could tell by the tone of her voice that she “reached out” to remove her feelings of guilt and feel better about her self. It had nothing to do about feeling bad for the emotional harm she had done to at least two men. Men are mules. I cannot remember her exact words but basically she felt she did no harm because all the men but her ex husband where doing ok. She then asked about grabbing breakfast. I was a no show.

This is how women operate. She gets an “it’s okay” from a a guy and its back see I am not a bad person after all because its been like 90 days and every one is happy now. Its like the past wrongs are erased as soon as the wronged have moved on a little bit. I see this a perversion of God’s Grace, but thats another topic and one I am unsuited detail.

Next female apology I want to discuss is about the lady who accused me of rape. Now she made no legal/ formal charges. She woke up, semi nekkid in my bad, with me full dressed and standing over her telling her she has to get up and go, I have to go to work. 1st words out of her mouth? “Did we have sex? Did you rape me? You raped me!” I threw her cellphone at her and told her to “call the cops, I want a rape kit on your rancid cunt right the fuck now”. Well this scared the shit out her and she stated backing away from the claim. I wouldn’t relent. “call the fucking cops you worthless fucking bitch. Right the fuck now” again and again with her saying over and over again she was sorry etc, knew I wouldn’t rape her, doesn’t know why she would say that etc etc. I ain’t the smartest fella around, but I do posses a low animal cunning so I a recorded it all on my iphone. And I don’t have a flight or fight response. I have a fight or fight response. About an hour later she texts me another apology. She owns up to saying that because she was confused (she got blasted on pills, weed and booze before heading over to my place) and didn’t want this nice guy to know she was banging me. I saved the texts. She is basically begging me not to say anything to anyone, especially her brother who I know from back in the day when I did youth counseling at a local church. In the texts she mentioned remembering me putting her to bed clothed and what not and that she probably took her clothes off while she was still blasted from booze and drugs. I save the text messages, send a copy of them to my lawyer and bail bondsmen and get on with my life

4 months later I get a text from a random phone number saying they owe me $40 and do I want to pick it up. I ask who it is and its the false rape accusation chick, using someone elses phone because I blocked her number. She wants to know if I want the $40 and is angry I blocked her number. I said sure, I’ll stop by your work at noon. She flips her shit. I wasn’t supposed to say yes to the $40. I was supposed to say its ok so she can put all of our nastiness behind us. No I was wrong, I apologize etc. Just you bastard for wanting the $40 and a why can’t we be friends.

Typically I no longer extend any sort of forgiveness toward women. They aren’t recognizing some wrong committed against you. They simply want to go back to feeling like a really good person, even though they did some not good things. Or some really bad things, or a lot of really bad things. Women lie like they breath, natural and easy and they lie to themselves more then anyone else.

Their apologies also have a good deal of keeping mules on stand by. Who knows, they made need something heavy carried out to their car, or they want to keep a spurned beta in rotation for free drinks every now and then or as a back up plan if she is one of those unlucky few who don’t land their billionaire playboy with a heart of gold. If it was truly about recogzing having wronged someone, it would be an honest straight forward affair. “Ton, I apologize for xyz” no qualifying statements like “but you did abc 1st”. There would be the understanding that the words “I am sorry” are not a magic talisman which gets them off the hook and that the damage done doesn’t disappear or that the words magically repaired busted relationships.

Recently a young man I know, and whom I am proud to call friend went through this sort of thing himself, though not to the extent I used for examples. He is a good man with potential waiting to expand and in the process of becoming a man to reckon with. All the building blocks are there. Any rate he rolled up on a chick, she said no thanks, college etc is more important right now. That’s the script, right? School, work some cock sampling, then find a good man. Like said good men grow on trees, free for the picking. Any rate, he asked me why she would make a point of saying good bye and what not before left to start school and he wanted to know why. It had been months since she said thanks but no thanks

There are three reasons why chicks do this shit.

Likely she feels bad about turning down the advances of a good man who is all those things girls say they want, but don’t date until its time to change lanes from the strong independent women exciting life to married mommy etc. Girls know that shit isn’t right, even if they only are vaguely aware of knowing what and why they acting as they are. Any hint of friendless toward her lets her feel ok about herself and off the hook for turning him down. Why do they feel bad about turning them down? Well sometimes women have some small twisted version of a soul and they feel bad about the duality of their nature and the falsehoods they keep alive. Sometimes. Not often though

Girls want to keep that shrinking pool of good men around and believe a quick reach out with some faint air of remorse and a side hug is the correct tactic to do so. It also gives her some small measure of peace because even though she hurt him 3 months ago, its ok now because they hugged. For like 3 whole seconds.

It all boils down to her feeling good about herself; saving face among the herd; preserving a series of fall back men. It has nothing to do with him, making him feel better, recognizing he was wronged or dismissed out of hand for buying into the bullshit she says she wants etc etc. Women tend to think men who believe what they say about what they want in a man are stupid. After all she knows she is full of shit why don’t you? Some few will feel pity most will feel scorn.

As for my friend, he feels like he fucked things up. Its not him who fucked up but the times we are living in. I do better then all right with women and I’ll address that in the next couple of posts but where I am in the world vs my success with women is way out of whack. My friends big mistake? Not being awesomely awesome on every point of some chicks 497 point checklist.

Back to me for a tad bit

I was ridding around Wilmington with Girl#2 a few weeks back. She wants to stop by and check on a friend who recently dumped her chump… I mean boy friend. She is a little down at not finding the kind of man she wants and for a change I think she is pretty realistic about those things and her rank in the SMP. Her big problem is, she lives in an UMC kind of town and she likes masculine men. She was pretty happy with her chump, and for a goodly bit of time but that gnawing discontent set in…. any rate this girl never paid me any never mind until that weekend. She noticed I have big arms, big neck, large chewed up man hands….. I have had those things for the length of time she has known me and its generally what folks comment on 1st. That or my face fur. You could see the appraisal in her eyes as she was making those comments. Plus some extra touching me and herself.

Whats going on here? #1 for awhile she was happy with a good guy who didn’t make here vagina drip but who on paper was a good deal. Now? Now I reckon she wants to cash in on her last few pre wall years to try and land the sort of man she really wants. She wants what she wants, but she is also trying to follow her family’s script. I don’t think there is anything wrong with what she wants vs what her family wants for her, however she is torn between two desires. Neither of which is right or wrong in an of themselves though I question how she goes about it. 70 years ago she most likely wouldn’t have any problems finding a psychically strongman who would make a decent mate. Now…. well now there doesn’t seem to be many men in that in between group.

Also, for some reason, Girl#2 is no longer fond of her friend….

Last on my list, I do a fair amount of bidness out in coastal NC. Through that I am aware of this one chick. Not a bad looking girl for her age, but smoking and drinking and cock sampling is starting to take their toll. And she has done some cock sampling. Seems to me she as fucked a goodly number of the MARSCOC and 2nd RECON dudes in her area of operations. He last cock sampling was a true dark triad kind of guy who has only a nodding acquaintance with anything like honesty and is a professional mid-level drug dealer. She is still way hooked on this guy. A classic alpha widow if there ever was one. She likes rough men who take her in hand and the dark triad fella had her in hand including the occasional black eye and her messing around with him and one of his bitces. Her family cut her off and now she is trying to find a good beta draft horse to lock down and get back into her family’s money… I mean good standing. She is trying to make that lane change from empowered cock carousel rider to housewife. She has her beta. A nice guy who happens to be a cop. She is tearing him up. Shit test after shit test all in attempt to get him to stand up to her. I have no doubt if the cop would throw her on the bed, paint her back porch red, fuck her hard form behind, shoot his load up her ass and clean his junk off in her hair that she would settle in and be a so so girl to have around. He seems to have some rough idea about game and frame but is to big of a pussy to really lay down decent game. Really they are both just fucking each other up for the next person. Her? its to late for her any way. Him? He has potential but I doubt things will work out that way. He’ll be another causality of the gender wars, going his own way why women and tradcons wail about men needing to steep up.

Any rate it is interesting to see shit tests and alpha widow vs beta chump with bad game and weak frame. I feel bad for him though. Once again he would make for a good husband in a better time or with a unicorn, but what are the odds of him finding a unicorn?


84 thoughts on “general Red Pill observations in the wild

  1. theasdgamer

    Good post, Ton. Ballbusters need special treatment. I was trying to deal with one of them and she said basically that she doesn’t have issues with other men. I replied, “Idc if other men are clueless and spineless.” She didn’t want any more texts, which was fine with me. I made an attempt to handle the situation; I defriended her from fb and deleted her cell from my contacts. I ignore her in my social circle. This broad managed to bump my arm last time I saw her and I ignored her. She still wants attention because she wants a man who won’t put up with her 5h1t. Too bad for her.

    1. SFC Ton Post author


      Ball busters…. well what they really need will get you legal trouble and they aren’t worth the trouble. However they don’t see it that way. To them it’s all these men are week and cannot handle me. To men it’s, the bitch isn’t worth the trouble.

      1. theshadowedknight

        Very true, Ton. I have so many of the women at work try to threaten me, and I have to laugh. The only place they have a chance against me is in their heads. They truly have no conception of the amount of harm I could visit upon them, but I like my job more then I care about their opinions, so they go on thinking they have a chance. Every other man does the same, and so women go on talking about how tough they think they are.

        The Shadowed Knight

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      They all misbehave its a matter of degrees. If its minor, maybe I’ll ignore it or refer to her as childish. Push to hard, I will tell her man etc to fix his bitch.

      To open ended of a question

      1. theasdgamer

        Would you ignore it if a woman flakes and lies about why she flaked (assume that she probably hooked up with another man)?

        I figure that she lied because she thinks that she needs to in order to keep me interested in her magic plumbing, lol. (I’m not interested, but she doesn’t want to accept that.)

        Her new “man” is not on good terms with me; I’m not gonna tell him anything.

        My solution is to ignore her; I haven’t even greeted her. Is that carrying it too far?

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        Hell no. Flake on me and its done. Hit me up with a text in a timely manner and reschedule? Sure its still good to go but flaking says she holds no high regard

      3. SFC Ton Post author

        No it isn’t. She wants to keep you in her rotation or sees you as a dancer partner only or is puzzled you don’t beckon to her call

        It’s how chicks are. Acting otherwise would be weird

      4. theasdgamer

        Can’t just be dance partner–she deliberately bumped my arm last time; we didn’t dance. She has said that she doesn’t mind us not dancing, which is try-hard on her part; I’m the one who has been refusing her requests to dance. Flirting for attention, maybe?

        Flaking was a nuclear 5h1t-test. Calling her on it means it’s now non-nuclear. 5h1t-tests still flying at me, e.g., the bump. I just need to ignore her unless she commits to being sweet, which means something like gifting me with a quart of fine bourbon by way of apology and being sweet in her speech.

  2. BuenaVista

    Provocative post because I never looked closely at this. I’m trying to remember the last genuine apology I received from a woman, either one in a personal relationship or at the office.

    Like the magic words “I love you”, “I’m sorry” (or the far more likely version, the smarmy non-apology apology: “I’m sorry you feel that way” which really means “I’m sorry you’re such a dick you won’t let me do whatever I want”) just seems to be a form of currency: a chit thrown out on the table in order to get something the woman wants, back.

    A woman I was very close to said recently, “I’m sorry I got you involved in this.” I do think she meant it, but within hours she also texted “My friend says we can use her guest house.” Maybe I’m being a punk, but I think the apology was sincere, but inevitably linked to a larger desire, which is to hit the reset button and boot-up some new misbehavior. Misbehavior without consequence or any justification other than her feels.


    It’s not just the women who say “I’m sorry you feel the way you do.” A very close friend, who lived next door and has not sold his house after moving on to Wisconsin, was whining to me yesterday. His yard is overgrown, the portico of his front elevation is collapsing because some idiot installed 20′ columns with the capitals *unsealed* and the bases (also wooden) are now sponges; one column has already fallen down and lies in the front yard, rotting. We get 70 mph winds here, routinely. One of those windstorms now and the front side of his house will be on the ground. His wife is domineering, SAHM, and toot-fruiti on many subjects, though she’s sweet about it and the husband is just fine with a “Yes, dear” lifestyle.

    One of the areas in which the boss — er, wife — is nuts is on vegetation. She thinks trees have souls. So I have all these trash trees growing like weeds on my lot line and spilling out onto my yard and taking all the sun away from my raspberries, tomatoes and rhubarb. You can no longer see the east and south sides of their house, which is three stories, because of the vegetation. This is probably the last summer I’ll be able to use the garden. Meanwhile he’s destroying the market value of his house. When I asked him a couple of weeks ago why he didn’t clean up the property, he just said “Oh, haha, Michelle would kill me if I cut anything down.” Again, they live 350 miles away now, but I’m supposed to admire her sentiment.

    Finally, the other day, I just told my friend, “You know, your house appears derelict, which is your business, but it’s spilling out over onto my property now and affecting me. So I don’t care if you want to ruin your house and never get it sold, but I do care if I’m supposed to embrace a ‘trees have souls’ lifestyle. Those aren’t trees, they’re ditch weeds, and you know I’m right because you can’t go to the nursery and buy that shit.’ I told him what he needed to do to save his portico and columns and he just said ‘It’s not that bad, I’ll get to it.’ I told him I could push my index finger through the bases of his columns, that he was leaning on me to do de minimus mowing and snow removal. I told him he was exploiting our friendship. Gradually he transitioned to:

    a. You seem really worked up. (“Whoa, you’re using your angry words.”)

    b. I didn’t realize you were so frustrated, is something else bothering you? (“Are you crazy or something?”)
    c. Okay, I see your point, but why are you talking to me this way? (“I don’t feel safe.”

    d. Okay, I’m sorry, I’m sorry you feel this way, but I’ve been busy. (“I’m way out of my comfort zone with this personal responsibility talk.”)

    e. Okay, I’m SORRY! but I thought we were friends! (“Friends never call friends on their fuckups, you meany.”)

    So, in essence, he apologized like a woman who was not getting me to do something she wanted, and transitioned immediately to whining about my “tone”, likely irrational leanings, and the unfairness of accountability for behavior. Because “friends” take advantage of each other, or something.

    I told him he needed to have a plan and that I wasn’t going to cover for him any longer. This is the height of being “mean”, isn’t it: asking someone to own his own shit. The end point, with a castrato or a woman is always, “Okay, you’re right, I’m sorry, but why are you being so mean?” I.e., “I know I need to apologize for fucking up, but hey everything’s relative and I’m going to shame you now so you don’t call me out ever again.”

    This makes sense because he works for a) his wife; and b) the Deep State (he is a hospital admin). The rules at his home are designed by and for the benefit of the women, with all the butt boys applauding. Their imperative is to get what they want, based on what they ‘feel’. Not structure logical andfair, and generous and productive, relationships.

    Oh, and his wife used to answer the door when I had some errand over there and he wasn’t home. In her nighty.

    Some days I just hate the fucking red pill. It makes everything too obvious.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Yea man he has a womanish frame. He is stuck between you and his rock and doesn’t have the balls to face either

      You also described why I do not argue with wymen. Much better then I ever could

      Wonder if the tree’s have souls chick uses paper products?

    2. thedeti

      still working my way through this comment.

      I hate, hate, HATE the “I’m sorry you feel that way” or “I’m sorry you took it that way” nonapology apology. I absolutely HATE it.

      It’s not an apology at all. It’s not an expression of remorse or repentance or empathy or sympathy. It’s a statement of “you’re being a fucking asshole for calling me out on my behavior. I didn’t do anything wrong, and just because you don’t like something I said or did doesn’t mean I did something wrong. YOU are the one who has the problem here.”

      1. SFC Ton Post author

        Yep he nailed it. That’s why I no longer argue or debate. My way or the highway.

        I will listen and consider but I do not seek closure or the middle ground or any such thing. My biggest mistakes in life have come from listening to the advice of others on the larger questions of life

      2. thedeti

        As for when to say “sorry”, a man should only apologize if he really has done something wrong – when he has fucked up or offended someone.

        And he should only apologize if he feels genuine remorse for saying or doing it or causing offense to someone.

        Men say “I’m sorry” way, way too much.

        If you didn’t do anything wrong, don’t say “sorry”.

        If you aren’t really remorseful for saying what you said or doing what you did, don’t say “sorry”.

      3. BuenaVista

        When someone says, “I’m sorry you took it that way” or “I apologize to anyone whose feelings were hurt” what they’re really doing is asserting their righteousness.

        As in, “I’m right, you’re wrong. But because I’m such a samaritan, I’ll take responsibility for your ill-considered feelings. And get double-plus brownie points for my ‘caring, sensitive nature.'”

        The person who says such things isn’t apologizing, he/she is declaring moral primacy, while smirking at the objections of others.

      4. SFC Ton Post author

        I do not say “sorry” it’s weak and childish phrase

        I apologize. It’s a grown up word for a grown ass man

        I do not apologize over slight wrongs etc. Everyone fucks up and I am not doing the 0 fault culture bullshit. It has to be pert serious for me to apologize. Otherwise you are just pissing away actual remorse and acknowledgement of wrong doing

    3. thedeti

      Yeah. Your former neighbor is a feminized bitchboy who, when called out on his crap behavior, won’t take responsibility and say “I’ll take care of it” and then fucking take care of it.

    4. BuenaVista

      I say “pardon me” if I misunderstand, jostle, or need assistance with something.

      I make a joke ridiculing me if I do something stupid, such as take a turn too fast.

      I say “I apologize” if I fuck up something important, or behave badly.

      In general, I say “I’m sorry” if I don’t mean it. Ton’s comment causes me to realize that. I suspect that the word ‘sorry’ has lost its meaning as anything other than ‘whatever, leave me alone.’

      1. theasdgamer

        If something is absolutely my fault, I apologize, as in, “I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have xxxxx.”

        If something someone else said is vague, I ask for clarification instead of saying, “Pardon me.”

        If I need assistance, I say, “Please help me with xxxx.”

        I poke fun at myself among other men if it is really entertaining.

        If I jostle because I wasn’t paying attention, I’ll just say, “Sorry.” Sometimes when I jostle, it’s deliberate and I don’t apologize.

      2. Sumo

        I suspect that the word ‘sorry’ has lost its meaning as anything other than ‘whatever, leave me alone.’

        I usually just say “leave me the fuck alone” if I want to be left alone.

        Sometimes when I jostle, it’s deliberate and I don’t apologize.

        If I deliberately jostle someone, there’s a good chance they’ll be either knocked down or in to the nearest solid object, so it’s fairly obvious that no apology is forthcoming.

        All that being said, Canadians apologize for a lot of things, like unintentional jostling or interrupting a conversation. Never really gave it much thought re: weak frame or not; I’ve always simply considered it to be good manners.

      3. SFC Ton Post author

        strong frame is understanding people bump into people etc it’s part of life and no big deal.

        Weak frame is worrying about every damn thing under the sun

      4. theasdgamer

        Ton, sometimes people deliberately try to crowd you and you can’t pussy out and avoid a collision. Bodybuilder tried that with me last week and so did a broad who wanted attention. She rolled up a 5h1t-test and IOI all into a bump.

      5. theasdgamer

        I usually interrupt and apologize afterwards. It’s an autism thing. We can’t judge very well when convo break occur. I do apologize for interrupting convos.

  3. Liz

    The first time I read through this post I was reminded of Bloom’s thread about the mother and wife who shat on her life and children to go ‘raise the roof’ with some bitches at the bar. And then sent her husband to jail, and then wanted to apologize and thought that should make everything okay. No doubt, she was very very contrite. I believe she wished she’d never done that, but only because things didn’t go the way she expected.
    Women don’t (typically) want to accept an apology. They’d (almost to the person) rather stew on things and bring them up again and again and again so they feel they have a personal trump card for every argument. It’s a lot like ‘isms, but better. Kind of like this:

    “Some days I just hate the fucking red pill. It makes everything too obvious.”

    Sorry BV. 😦
    It’s always awkward when men communicate like women. They’ve just had all the manliness beaten out of them from social conditioning. I think that behavior makes everyone uncomfortable (women in particular, who despise it though they don’t know why). Sometimes I think the push to feminize men has also led to the push of increasing homosexual/transvestite behavior. If the guy is supposed to be a man and communicates like a pussy, everyone is uncomfortable. But if he’s humming nuts and taking it up the ass everyone is more comfortable with it.

    1. Liz

      “They’d (almost to the person) rather stew on things and bring them up again and again and again so they feel they have a personal trump card for every argument.”

      Thought I should add, I’m not a special little snowflake. I did this too, at one point in my life (we’ve had a LOT of capers and travails, more than most couples, I think). Mike explained to me in no uncertain terms that I had to knock that shit off. It has nothing to do with the legitimacy of one’s “gripe” life isn’t an ouch contest and keeping score is divisive. So I had to grow up, and I did. I think everyone can women typically choose not to because they can and society tolerates it and empowers it now. And as a result (no shock there) they’re absolutely miserable.

      1. SFC Ton Post author

        I typically think you can only apologize from a position of strength and how many women have that position? Not very men weighed. Not the illusion of strength but actual strength?

        Otherwise an apology cost to much and weakens frame( not really but that’s how th insecure operate)

      2. theasdgamer

        Good thing for your marriage that Mike laid down the law, or else you all might be in my position,. Not good. Mrs. Gamer is unable to learn now, I’m afraid. Our daughter is enabling Mrs. Gamer’s bad behavior. The usual reframing and shaming whenever I try to discuss Mrs. Gamer’s bad behavior with Mrs. Gamer when daughter is present. And Mrs. Gamer failed a nuclear loyalty test. So I told her that I want out.

        This is all good material for my book. No lemons without lemonaid.

      3. Liz

        “Good thing for your marriage that Mike laid down the law, or else you all might be in my position,. Not good.”
        Yes, it was. He did explain the concept of irreparable damage…not from anything I had done, but from my mental hiccup feedback loop that wanted to bring up old garbage from the past that had been resolved and should have been dropped. People (women in particular) seem to get into these negative feedback loops. The push right now towards therapy and lots and lots of communication just feeds it more.

        Just thinking further on the topic, Ton. There was a guy Mike worked with who would apologize all of the time, for everything. He had a very feminine style of communication. It was very much like a teenaged girl (down to the nonstop ‘whatchadoin?’ texting). He asked Mike for advice, (because basically everyone likes Mike). He told him to stop apologizing.

      4. SFC Ton Post author

        LOL there was a NGO hippie bitch of the male variety who would always apologize for no good reason. Wanted to drown him in the port-a-shitter

    2. BuenaVista

      I agree with you, Liz, but given the PC world of the military, I have no idea how we are fielding fighting, flying, sailing men. The good ones who choose to stay in must be losing their minds. Any sea captain knows that 15% of his female cohort will quit a cruise early because of pregnancy, and be airlifted home to watch TV.

      1. Liz

        Most everyone I know in the military currently, BV, had a father in the military.
        I think that’s what keeps recruitment going.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        Yea it’s become a family affair no doubt. The other 1%… though my oldest son is likely to be the last. Weird saying oldest

        I stayed in for a few reasons. Some good, some less good. I did not want to leave the good men flapping in the breeze, also knew staying in kept young, gullible but extremely well into intentioned men alive ans whole. My 1st Sgt Major was a big deal in my life and that’s why he stayed in as well.

      3. Liz

        Mike used to say, “If all the good people get out there won’t be any good people left.”
        But, by about the ten year mark he was tired of it. Then, he got the F22 and agreed to sign on for more. Then he just couldn’t take it and rejected National War College so he’s in the Reserve now and REALLY ready to be done.

      4. BuenaVista

        Well, no offense Liz, but that’s sorta an obvious tautology. “If all the good people get out there won’t be any good people left.”

      5. Liz

        Their oxygen issues have been fixed, BV. 🙂
        But he hasn’t flown the F22 in a couple of years. It’s the F16 now.

      6. BuenaVista

        I know it’s John Boyd’s “little airplane” (according to Horner), and lacks the systems of the F-15 and F-22. But the F-16 and A-10 (which Horner ridiculed while his son was flying one) are the only current Air Force planes I ever wanted to fly.

        I always fueled up at Fort Wayne when I was commuting back and forth, and the Indiana Air Guard would be doing their recurring in their F-16s. The Iowa AG had F-16s, which practiced in the MOA over my home, but they’ve been converted into drone ‘pilots.’

        The F-16 just strikes me as an elegant, simple design. But I’m a big believer in 40 Second Boyd.

      7. Liz

        “Well, no offense Liz, but that’s sorta an obvious tautology.”
        Yes, but it can keep a young man going when everything sucks, but he feels the burden of responsibility to others to stay in. Doesn’t work forever though.

      8. Liz

        Sorry to ramble more, you probably only intended the “I have no idea how we are fielding these men” to be rhetorical. It’s just something I’ve seen firsthand and thought about myself.

        The military has a way of indoctrinating people. Probably also obvious, dat, but more subtly and pervasively than a lot of people realize…literally, when you are accustomed to being told where to go for over a decade having actual options can be odd, plus the family becomes indoctrinated to (hence, generations of men feel the pressure to follow in Dad’s footsteps). It’s still strange to me that we’ve been living in the same house for three years. This just hasn’t happened in my experience. Anyway, you know that things REALLY suck when these people try to get out in droves. At present, for military pilots at least, pretty much everyone wants to leave. People are even turning down promotions to General to just retire and get the hell out of there. I don’t think that even happened under Carter.

      9. SFC Ton Post author

        Once you have been in, seen some trigger time and know what the world is like…. well the civilian world is full of strange and delusional people. Normally quite foreign

      10. Liz

        “But the F-16 and A-10 (which Horner ridiculed while his son was flying one) are the only current Air Force planes I ever wanted to fly.”

        The A10 is Mike’s favorite plane, but he likes the F16 too. 🙂
        He likes the F22 but not more than the F16 (or even T38, he likes that one too). It was cool to be selected for initial cadre though.

      11. BuenaVista

        Best T-38 low pass ever: I was at this game, which location is my hometown. I was in the press box, and the reporters were hitting the deck. Hilarious stuff. They looked pretty tight and smooth to me.

        The formation leader was an Iowa boy and he was six months or so from retirement. So of course they busted him out, charged him, he can’t even fly a Cessna now.

        When I am diagnosed with terminal something I’m going to hammerhead a Pitts at the 50 yard-line, into a loop, and … shit like that.

      12. BuenaVista

        I had a plane at Martin State (Baltimore) for a while. The MD Air Guard bases A-10s there. I loved to watch them fly home, break, coast into the base leg and final, banking 75 degrees at idle. It looks like a really enjoyable plane to throw around.

      13. Liz

        “I’m going to the cop shop of some lawyer offices.”
        Lol Ton. 🙂

        “Best T-38 low pass ever: I was at this game, which location is my hometown. I was in the press box, and the reporters were hitting the deck. Hilarious stuff. They looked pretty tight and smooth to me.

        The formation leader was an Iowa boy and he was six months or so from retirement. So of course they busted him out, charged him, he can’t even fly a Cessna now.”

        That must’ve been epic! I feel bad for the lead guy getting sacked like that, though. 😦
        Careful in that Pitts, BV. We had a close friend crash in one of those (his wife was in the back seat), right after strafing a football game, in fact! (it wasn’t a professional game though…only highschool or college and it was pre-approved. We were out of the country that year)
        He was messing around with a buddy in another Pitts and went into an unrecoverable spin (I think). He and his wife were only in their mid 20s, we were a couple of years younger.

        It really hit home because this had been the luckiest guy we knew, until that day. We used to go out with him and do the stupidest stuff with cessnas. He and Mike would each take one out and I’d throw a roll of toilet paper out and it would unwind in the sky and they’d dive down and cut it up. One day the roll was all stuck in the prop when we landed. Ah, youth. 😛

      14. BuenaVista

        I think Pitts are pretty safe; it’s very odd that they got into a flat spin. I could speculate but it’s tasteless, as you know.

        My best acro experience was this plane. Single seat, 400 hp (supercharged), I imported it from Moldova. The shop that went through it, reassembled it, and painted it, in Kaunas, Lithuania, left a bucking bar in the rear fuselage. You know, where your elevator and rudder bell cranks are. So I was on the downside slope, just after the apex of a loop, inverted, and the metal bar jammed the elevator; I had no way to move elevator, and that was a mighty fun landing, in a tailwheel airplane, incidentally, where like a Pitts you have zero forward viz. Another time one of my aileron cables separated and I sold the plane precipitously, which I now regret. Some guys say that the only plane that has ever flown better is a Spitfire.

        You can get dual in a Yak-52, from the back seat, and if you can land a tailwheel airplane (the -52 is tricycle) get comfortable with the numbers and pattern performance. There’s nothing to takeoff, except you have to hold on. You’ll be off the ground in 100 feet and climbing at 4000 fpm.


  4. thedeti

    Good post.

    I haven’t read all the way through BV’s post, but like him, I’m now trying to remember the last time I got a genuine apology from a woman.

    I last got a genuine apology from Mrs. deti about two or three months ago. She routinely does something to irritate, annoy or offend. But I’m supposed to let them roll off my back.

    It’s been years since I got any sort of apology or “I’m sorry” from my mom or sisters.

    Girlfriends from before marriage? Can’t remember any of them who really were remorseful for anything they said or did to me.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Thanks man

      The no apology thing really grated on me when my marriage was going poorly. Now it’s just part of the wood work

      I always have to read BV’s stuff a few times. Damn he can write. Content and delivery

    2. BuenaVista

      Since my 20-year marriage ended I’ve had three meaningful relationships that were coasting toward marriage:

      a. editor, sophisticated, Manhattan. Said “I’m sorry” when I pointed out that I did all the traveling and paying. She could have said instead and it would have had the same weight and meaning as: “I really resent that observation but I’m smart so I’ll acknowledge it.” She married the first guy she met after me. I still dig her, maybe melt a little bit, and she might help me publish, but the Feminine Imperative is strong with her and I shouldn’t have married her.

      b. Hollywood figure, Manhattan. She never said “I’m sorry” except the time her ex-husband (a noted Hollywood monster) dropped off the children without warning, while I was doing her on the stairs of her duplex, which DeNiro owns now, and when she said “I’m sorry” she was really saying, “Whoo, teehee, that was a little close, I liked that.” Basically, she never had any reason to say “I’m sorry.” She is a unicorn, and she married the first guy she dated after me.

      c. DC matron. She said, “I’m sorry” once because I noted that I didn’t appreciate being treated like a sidepiece because she didn’t want any of the neighbors to know we were seeing each other. She was remorseful and it didn’t happen again; I parked in the driveway. She got engaged to the next guy she dated, though she dumped him. Another unicorn.

      I think this OP has added a new line to my filter. Thanks, Ton. B) and C) = yes. A) = no. An ability to apologize: It’s just a filter on agency and a capacity to empathize.

  5. SFC Ton Post author

    One of the things I appreciate in the manosphere is filling in the micro details on big picture things. I am fairly adept at the big picture stuff we talk about not so much on the things that create the big picture. This happens pretty often for me. Lately at Blooms about calling girls darling, then again here.

    That happens in the comment sections and as a rule, I am more interested in the comments then main topic.

  6. Liz

    Here is an anecdote Mike came home with.
    He was at a bar that serves 500 types of beer with two other pilots from the squadron. Think this was in Dallas, or thereabouts. The two guys both ordered Coors light (to me, that’s just weird. Coors light sucks and. Dude. It’s a bar with 500 types of beer). I think they were under the impression that ordering Coors light made them look more “manly” (in a heh, I know what I like…I like beer that sucks sort of way, I guess?).

    When it was Mike’s turn to order, he asked the waitress to surprise him (he does this a lot, btw). She was flustered and said, “I don’t know what kind of beer you like…” so he told her he doesn’t like IPA, but other than that she could pick. She went back to get the beer and the guys were telling Mike, “You’ve done it now, she’s going to spit in your beer…” It wasn’t like Mike was rude, but they seemed to think he’d committed some social faux pas. So he just said, “Just watch.” She returns with the beers and hands him his and says it’s “her favorite” and she “hopes he likes it” and waits and watches him sip it, and gets all excited when he nods and says it’s acceptable (or whatever). Those guys were surprised. Clearly they don’t understand women at all. LOL

    1. theasdgamer

      Yeah, it’s just so weird to some guys that a man would engage a woman in something like choosing a beer. The ignorance runs so deep. I like an Oatmeal Stout called “Buffalo Sweat”, which a woman introduced to me. I want to try “Moose Drool” next, which another woman told me about.

      Letting a waitress choose your beer is engaging. She will probably be happy to tell you about beers that you haven’t tried and maybe offer a selection and maybe samples if they are on draft.

      And getting someone to do something for you makes you seem a little charismatic in their eyes. People rationalize that someone wouldn’t ask you to do something if they didn’t like you and you wouldn’t do something for them if you didn’t like them. So asking someone to do something for you helps to build emotional bridges. Maybe this is why entitled people seem to have more social ease?

      Yes, I am autistic. Autistic doesn’t necessarily mean “socially clueless”, although it may take us longer to develop social awareness than is the case for non-autists. Autism is a developmental thing, primarily.

    2. SFC Ton Post author

      LOL no they don’t but ordering Coors lite is the kind of dumb shit most men have been trained to do because it reflects some weird version of middle class frugality, stoicism and practicality which is “supposed” to impress chicks with their salt of the earth/ regular guy street cred but really just makes betas betas

      1. BuenaVista

        One of the peculiarities of my rural redoubt is that the light beer of choice is … Busch Light. I don’t even drink that when doing shots. I don’t think I’d even serve it to a dog I was trying to shut up and sleep.

        I have lost most of my affection for beer, anyway. Currently keeping a daily carb target of 20 grams per day, don’t like Ultra, and prefer having visible obliques to beer bloat. (Just finished my sixth week with my S&C coach and they’re back. This guy is changing my life, and while I’m still weak, I am now going up 5 lbs a week on the squats and deadlifts, and that should continue for a while.)

      2. BuenaVista

        A possible post for Tonsplace sometime might describe your training protocol. I think in both of our cases it involves perpetual rehab (I can’t do presses yet owning to the bionic shoulder not wanting to extend fully).

      3. Liz

        I’m partial to high alcohol beers that come in a snifter.
        Might be because I like the word snifter. I don’t go to ‘fun’ beer places very often but when I do I ask for something served in a snifter (or, actually, I ask Mike and he asks for it…but really not anymore because he already knows).
        One of my idiosyncrasies that would probably annoy everyone else, but Mike finds endearing. 😛

  7. BuenaVista

    My mother is a paranoid schizophrenic, and has been intermittently hospitalized, and continuously medicated (heavily, as in she slurs her words) since I was 5. When I was a child (with three siblings) she was frequently physically violent and 100% emotionally violent. I remember having one normal conversation with her — when I was three. I have never held her hand. She put me in the hospital twice before I was ten, and I was sent to the doctor a few times by my school because of grotesque bruises and once because I hadn’t been bathed in so long the skin was peeling off my hands. Some of her best melt-downs occurred at events that celebrated her children, such as a football banquet or college graduation (because these were events about someone other than herself.) This is probably enough information. Suffice to say, the chronically ill become so self-centered and self-indulgent that merely observing the agency of another person drives them off the edge. And we’re supposed to ‘apologize’ to them.

    I love my dad but he erred in not defending his children; he’s a classic beta drafthorse, and he decided the road to nobility was to make his wife primary. So he made a virtue of sacrificing his children (and his own existence) to a monster. My brother dealt with it by moving to Germany after college and not coming home for 20 years, but ultimately it blew up on him and he’s been hospitalized several times for debilitating depression, and his career has been flattened, and of course the pathologies have been passed to his children. My niece tried to kill herself as a 16 year-old last year. Parents who cannot own their own behavior create a debilitating river of pain that flows through generations, if unchecked. And we are supposed to apologize to them, because sympathy.

    A relationship is impossible when the household ethic is “You should apologize to your mother for reacting to her pathologies, it’s not her fault.” (“I’m sorry you have the feelings you do, so get rid of them, they make us feel badly about ourselves.”) Day is night, night is day, it’s a rabbit hole with no bottom.

    One of life’s ironies is that my dad will die first and I will be the one charged with her care, and that of my younger sister, who is also destroyed by schizophrenia. But I made sure I bought a place that was too far away to make dinners “at home” with them feasible.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Damn man but clearly you have made some predictions on how shit will play and prepared accordingly

      Which is, most the time, all a man could do or should do

      1. BuenaVista

        I never got a handle on it, nor could articulate the core issues, pre-Red Pill. A lot of guilt for a very long time. TRP teaches us that we own ourselves, and are not just useful ponies for others’ parades.

        I miss my Dad, though. My house is in his home town (making me fourth generation in this village) and for awhile he would take a break from his asylum-home and spend very high quality time here with me. But he acquiesced when she said he shouldn’t come here any longer (he never brought her after their first visit, which she ruined, natch). I have to let him own that decision. It is inconceivable that I would not spend every possible minute with my sons.

        If I have business with them, in my own hometown 250 miles away, where they still live, I stay in a motel.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        Yep own the decision but I reckon once you’ve gone down a path for so long the sunk coasts are hard to walk away from

    2. Liz

      Fuuudge, BV. That sucks.
      I’m kind of surprised that you like women at all after that. 😦
      It’s impressive that you overcame all of that, and have been successful in life.
      Amazing the impact one unstable person can have on the lives of so many people.

      1. BuenaVista

        Well, the OP is about ‘apologies’. It took decades for me to figure out why it was strange that we should apologize to them for having human reactions, believe it or not. That’s some serious co-dependency. And why, as Ton just noted, no statement of responsibility would ever come from them (because of emotional sunk costs). My father did tell my older sister once that he should have set her up in an apartment or divorced her or both when we were children. But he’ll go gently into the good night without ever having the conversation with me, I imagine. It doesn’t matter now; life is not a popular movie with tearful reconciliations all around.

        Looking back I made women, and marriage, a very high (unduly so) priority because the experience of being deeply involved with a woman was so exhilarating and gratifying. Clearly I was just doing, with one healthy woman, and one unhealthy woman, what I witnessed in my father: mimicking blue pill ‘try-hard’ when more leadership would have been more useful. Divorce, when you realize you’ll never participate in a healthy family in life, is a load. I’m doing my best to quietly encourage more RP concepts with Son #1. But his mother is his primary influence.

    3. thedeti

      >A relationship is impossible when the household ethic is “You should apologize to your mother for reacting to her pathologies, it’s not her fault.” (“I’m sorry you have the feelings you do, so get rid of them, they make us feel badly about ourselves.”) <

      I've heard similar things growing up.

      "Your feelings are wrong. There is no reason why you should feel this way."

      "You have no right to feel this way."

      "Apologize to me for acting like an asshole after I acted like an asshole to you. I can't help my bad temper."

      "Your mother is sick. She can't help the way she is. You have to accommodate her. It's just how life is."

  8. thedeti

    BV once again owning the thread. Thanks for these comments. It really helps me make sense of my own parents, who had their own pathologies, but not nearly as severe as those of your mother.

  9. redpillgirlnotes

    I missed this post when it first went live. I used to say sorry all the time, anytime things were akward, and even when it wasn’t me. I have had to learn not to do this. However when I am at fault or have wronged someone, accidentally or knowingly, I have no trouble apologizing. I don’t like discord and I don’t like leaving things undone. I do agree many times women make weak sauce apologies such as, “I’m sorry but…” then launch into how you deserved it, or some such. Not cool.

    In “girl speak” I would say the gal w the affair’s “sorry” was her feeling out if you would be her main man. I bet she wasn’t counting on a no there. But good choice, Ton!

    The passed out gal, I know two other guys who had the same thing happen – they put a gal to bed, no hanky panky, she’s blacked out so she can’t remember what happened, instead of owning their embarrassing behavior out comes the “did you rape me?” Card. Well played on that one. Exactly the right response.

    Girl #2 shows up to comfort a friend just dumped who then tried to hit on her man. Classic. I can see why she cooled that friendship.

    As for the guy friend, yeah that girl was just messing w his head to soothe her own feelings plus trying to keep the window open because…beta orbiter? He did nothing wrong.

    I agree too the comments are often as good of learning material as the posts themselves!

    @ bv hugs to you. I am glad you live far enough away to not do dinner. As a child you could not protect yourself, but now you can and are. Well done! Nothing to be sorry about there! My family has a “don’t talk about the pink elephant” thing going on, not to the same degree, but I get having to kow tow to someone who is out of line but gets the pass at the expense of everyone else. Yucky. Good point about not allowing such stuff to pass down to the next generation.


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