Shit women should know about the SMP

My daughter has an employee/ semi friend who walked on her draft horse a while back  and is struggling to deal with reality of the SMP. Any rate, I was at her place of bidness for lunch with the beloved She-Ton, when my own flesh and blood ambushed me with a request to break down reality for her very frustrated employee/ semi friend

After some negation, they agreed to buying lunch and 4 vodka/ cranberry’s. Not sure why, but those things go down right when it’s balls hot and sweaty nuts humidity of August in the South.

This is a brief summary


#1)  life isn’t fair, dating etc is even less “fair”. Get over it. Dating isn’t, or rather finding someone to date sucks for men and women. Get over it over, focus on what you can effect and controll.


2) almost all women over estimate or under estimate their SMP value. To a very real extent your MMP is even lower because physical attraction drives the whole dating and possible marriage train, then your baggage starts subtracting from your SMP. Dating a girl with debt, kids etc might not be a bad deal. Marrying her is a different equation. A much tougher one.

And by almost all I mean 97% of women over estimate, 2% under estimate and 1% has it right. Maybe.

No your personality doesn’t over come that extra weight, that short haircut doesn’t look good on you, sarcasm doesn’t create boners, it doesn’t matter what your girlfriends think. Unless you are fucking them and that’s a different equation as well

#3) women fail to understand, every bitch breathing wants the same dude; 6 foot or taller, 6 pack abs, 6 figure plus income, advanced degree, nice guy with an edge, who loves babies, can speak a second or third language, handy around the house, 6 inch tongue, 9 inch pecker, talks like Oprah, fuck like a stud horse…. though not to often…. can cook a gourmet meal with one hand and kill zombies with the other all while watching the view

The competition for that dude is fucking ferice. He isn’t going to settle for anything less then an 8 and even then said 8 will have serious Girl Game. Nor does he have any reason to settle for an age adjusted 8. Girls in their early 20’so want to fuck dudes like that too.

Every item a woman removes from her 437 point check list, the more she opens up her dating options.

Only something like 15% of men are 6 foot or taller, only like 4% are 6’2″ or taller.

Only about 12-14% of men have advanced degrees

I have no idea how many men 6 foot or taller have advanced degrees, but you know it’s not the full 15%. You need to pair down your checklist to something which reflects reality if you want to date.  Unless you are smoking hot with a great attitude

Those two requirements probably do more to limit a woman’s dating option then anything else…besides being fat. Being fat is the biggest dating limitation a woman can choose

And I am pretty sure most ladies want to bitch about shit with there gal pals vs date decent guys so I doubt we’ll see much reality sink in

Hypergammy keeps women from noticing decent men, and in her mind, turns decent beta dudes in to all sorts of terrible things but reality says those are the kind of men she can realistically pull. The expection to that would be some sort of fetishist and her willing to play along

Most men are not players but women like and keep fucking players so they think every dude is one. They’d rather be hostile to men about men only looking for a hook up then dare regular guys or own up to being a slut

Yes you pretty much need to put out by date 3-5 or he is going to walk. Or he is a chump. Why is he going to walk? He’said been burned before…. that’s right bitches men get burned in the SMP all the time and middle age men or older mostly get burned by single mom’s and mostly by being strung out for a series of dates

Most older men have been pretty soured on dating and take a miminilmist approach to women. And for most men approaching chicks really sucks. Soooooo if he doesn’t get some decent feedback, ie IOI’s he is going to walk. He is trying to protect his emotions just like you are…. which brings us too

#4) women know jack shit about men, what men like, what most men want or what most men experience in the SMP.

This holds women back in a shit ton of ways. Most easy to point out is attitude. Because women have so little regard for men they fail to realise how hostile they are and how off putting they can be

Online dating profiles are mostly horrible, but it’s a target rich environment for this topic. Woman says she likes to travel, man reads….travel at my expense. Most ladies come across as bitchy or money hungry with their ptofiles…. don’t believe me? Go read some

Another example of women not understanding men via online dating is…. messages. Women bitch about men sending short opening messages because they get dozens of hellos. For guys, long custom built messages don’t get any better reply rates then “hey” so why should men bother putting in the extra effort?

No most men don’t read your profile that carefully. Online dating is what the guy does on his lunch break. Men do online because it’s time efficient, large amount of time invested in reading profiles and crafting messages doesn’t improve his success rate so it is unrealistic to expect much of either. Also guys mostly get various version of “no” from women and to be susscesfull, he needs to push a little bit more. For example, the 5 foot 5 guy doesn’t give a shit it says no short men on your profile  because if he messaged girls who only liked short dudes he’d never message any girl. He had to stand in the batter’s box  and take a swing

You’re at a bar, all dolled up, talking with your gal pals waiting on Mr wonderful to sweep you off your feet and fly you to Paris on his private jet….. what are you and your gal pals talking about? Is it a subject that will set up a bitch vibe the most clueless dork can pick up from a mile away?  Want to know the kind of guy who can bust through your snark, bitch shield and the 3 man hating cock blocks you are kicking it with? That’s right…. the dreaded player.

Any rate, an appreciation for how men view the dating experience, how they view the vibe you put out and why they engage in such a low investment manner and adjusting to those realities will put you miles ahead of the competition

The private man challenged women to find one good thing about every man she sees. Sort of an attitude adjustment exercise. It’s one of the best ideas I’ve read. My challenge is….. spend some time trying to understand men are emotional beings that feel paino; try to understand just a tad bit about the masculine side of dating and how being put through the SMP/MMP grinder effects a man’s action in the dating world.

Or not


58 thoughts on “Shit women should know about the SMP

  1. Farm Boy

    Do women really think about what men want? Other than showing skin that is? Or do they think that they don’t need to?

    Optimization techniques can be really effective when nobody else is optimizing

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      No most women don’t give what a man wants or needs serious consideration. What’s that fancy word for self centered? And if she does, she probably has to keep that on the down low, like men need to keep their Game knowledge covert

      Yup a woman wouldn’t need much intell to do better then her competition….. Unless she only wants the tier 1 sort of man

      Sort of like back in the day it didn’t take much game to be way ahead of other mrn,

  2. thedeti

    Disagree with this:

    “And by almost all I mean 97% of women over estimate, 2% under estimate and 1% has it right. Maybe.”

    Most women underestimate their sexual attractiveness; i.e. their fuckability. Most women don’t realize that most men are truly willing to dump fucks in them. Most women just don’t realize that most men really do want to fuck them. Most women just don’t seem to realize just how much men are driven by sex.

    Most women vastly, vastly overestimate their relationship/marriage market value. They do this because attractive men want to fuck them; and confuse themselves into believing that because those hot men want to fuck them then they ALSO want relationships with or marriage to them.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Naw I think we are saying the same thing

      Because a dude 8 will bang a lady 4 doesn’t make her an 8

      Most women think they are 2 points higher up…. or more in SMP value

      MMP value starts at the SMP value then is adjusted from there. Most women have way more MMP liabilities then potential assets.

    2. OKRickety

      “Most women just don’t realize that most men really do want to fuck them.”

      No, men just want sex, and sometimes they hold their nose to get it. The fact that many men do have sex with low SMV women is that the men are settling for them, whether temporarily or long-term. Most men 5s,6s think sex with a 3 is better than no sex. But the woman is still a 3, just like the woman 6 is still a 6 after sex with a guy 9.

      Women don’t recognize this reality, and thus overestimate their SMV.

    3. Leiff

      Hi, deti. Much respect is offered before I disagree with you.

      Most women are unfuckable (being fat, ugly, shitty attitude, etc…) and overestimate their SMP due to factors such as Ton and OKR allude to in their responses. When I was drinking hard in my early 20’s there were several times 3’s and 4’s dragged me back to their lairs when I was out solo. Never have or would fuck one sober though.

      In my late 40’s now and IMO most women (90%) over 25 appear to me to be 4’s or lower. I’m still in a rocky marriage at present, but if single I’d make it a point of honor never be seen with less than a 6 just because it wouldn’t be worth my time. Rather be shooting or bargain hunting for older cars.

      Maybe I’m not “most guys” but I don’t feel that I’m a world-beater either. Just self-respect and experience I guess.

  3. thedeti

    There’s a lot of apex fallacy going on with women too. Most women see very attractive men fucking lots of girls. They see the players. So they assume EVERY man is a player. EVERY man is out there fucking lots of girls. Women truly believe even average men are out there getting laid with a different girl every weekend.

    They really believe this shit. Chicks can be so dumb.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Legit but it stems from women seeing right through average dudes, like they are part of the background props of her life vs humans etc

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Would depend on your intentions

      Most of my experience with virgins was in jr high/ high school. So gave it up quick, others not so much

      I have dated one virgin as an adult, I gave her a goodly amount of time but I also had other girls

      The issue I had…. the sexual issue I had with that girl was she was an expert at taking budding romantic partners and mentally/ emotionally putting them in the friend zone to keep her maidenhood.

      Not to discourage you but you need a realistic approach and accurate battlefield intell

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Don’t know, don’t care
      It was amazing pulled pork, the mac and cheese was legit and few things go down better then grey goose and cranberry when it’s 100 degrees and you’ve been on a bike for a couple of hours

      Women are…. extremely resistant to training, which is why anti “domestic violence” laws have done so much damage

  4. Anonymous Reader

    Sum up a lot of owmen’s attraction issues with the 80/20 rule, the Pareto principle.
    80% of any group of women will be attracted to 20% of men available.
    This is not some WAG, one of the founders of OKCupid was surprised to learn this after analyzing his own big data set.

    It’s not that women assume all men are players, sorry Deti, it’s that they can’t see most men but they sure can see the Alphas. The rest of men just … don’t really exist, socially.

    One way for women to get around this would be to look for something good in every man they meet. Oh, wait, someone already said that, whatta surprise?

    Say, Ton, how old was this female in need of teaching? Something like, hmm, 27 to 28? Totally a WAG on my part, yeah.

      1. Anonymous Reader

        So…rode hard, put away wet, a bit?

        Still a chance for her, but to make it work she’s gotta do a little rewiring in her head.
        Step one: pay attention to dutch-uncle Ton. She can’t do that, oh, well…

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        lol we shall see
        She is no worse then the typical I ruined my kids life for tingles, cash and prizes and in some regards a little better BUT you could tell she struggled with picking up what I put down. All to counter culture for her but then again it’s hard to argue against it

  5. Ame

    thanks for writing this out, Ton.

    – – – – – – – – – –

    i don’t have much … patience? … tolerance? … for people who don’t genuinely care about other people, including women who treat men like this. which, admittedly, includes most. i quickly walk away from friendships w/many b/c of how they treat people/men/husbands.

  6. Sumo

    Am I the only one who is having a hard time dealing with the fact that The Ton was drinking vodka and cranberry? That’s like, a girly drink, man. 😀

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      lol I hear you my man
      The heart burn has really effected the way I drink
      Most days it’s a couple bottles of muscidne wine, which on the up side is a nice mellow buzz

  7. Elspeth

    I’m always shocked by the stat that only 15% of men are over 6 feet tall. Either I live among giants or am too tall to even notice short men.

    Hey, Ton.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Hey! How’s you and yours?

      That is the thing darling, in a very real way short men don’t exist to women. The comments from women about short men demonstrate an utter disdain for our …. well everything. Our physical maturity, sexual abilities, our mental health, physical strength etc etc

      It really is a mystery why more men don’t hate women

      1. Take The Red Pill

        Talk to some younger guys nowadays: the ones who were raised by feminist single mothers, and who have been exposed to vicious man-hating misandry all of their lives from lying, narcissistic mothers (sometimes grandmothers). sisters, female cousins, schoolmates, teachers, etc. Those guys HATE women with such an intensity (sometimes white-hot) that it astonishes me (a MGTOW before there was such a thing).
        The feminists and all their Useful Idiots of the female population will have a LOT to fear when the collapse comes…
        (And it WILL come sometime; you can’t live on borrowed money and run up deficits forever.)

    2. Anonymous Reader

      I’m always shocked by the stat that only 15% of men are over 6 feet tall. Either I live among giants or am too tall to even notice short men.

      Average man in the US is 5’9″ tall, average woman is 5’4″, if I remember right.
      Elspeth, you don’t see shorter men because of hypergamy.

      My daddy, an awesome, charming and a true patriarch was 5’8. Two inches shorter than my very pretty mama.

      Exception proves the rule. I know of one, maybe two married couples where the woman is taller than the man, one case a 5’8″ woman married a shrimp who is 5-6 years older than her, so he clearly had enough Game back when to deal with the issue. Every other couple, married or not, he’s at least an inch or two taller.

      Same for age. I know very few couples, married or not, where she’s older. It’s all due to hypergamy.

      But taller men tend to like the shorter women too.

      Men’s attraction triggers range more widely than women’s. You know that in your forebrain.
      Tall women sometimes come with a backpack of attitude, but men even nowadays tend to prefer women that are not contentious.

      Here, let George explain it.

  8. Elspeth

    My daddy, an awesome, charming and a true patriarch was 5’8. Two inches shorter than my very pretty mama. Together they produced sons ranging from 6’2″ to 6’4″.

    Some women do see shorter men.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Lol your multiple blogs keep getting hung up in moderation

      Your mother see shorter men ( if 5’8″ was shorter back then) and what…. 3 other chicks?

      It’s not like girls who are 5 foot 1 want a man who is a tad bit taller, it’s that the want a man who is a foot taller. A guy who is 5 foot 7, 6 inches taller, is still to short for them

      Frankly it’s insane, and women simply aren’t into short guys, they hold short men in utter contempt

      1. Ame

        idk why God made man like this, but He did:
        “But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” I Samuel 16:7

      2. Elspeth

        Apologies for the different IDs.

        Whether or not 5’8″ was short back in the day, he was still shorter than she was.

        You ‘re right that even the shortest women want taller men. But taller men tend to like the shorter women too. It really does go both ways where that is concerned.

        My husband thank goodness always preferred tall girls but he is an exception.

      3. SFC Ton Post author

        No apologies required

        Social and economic times where much different back in the day. My grandfather was somewhat shorter than my grandpaw but while a mostly happy marriage, it was a marriage based on economic need and family obligations. Not how it’s done these days

        But you accurately described the squeeze for short men. It would be much less of an obstacles for short men if shorter women wanted to date men 2-3 inches taller or what have.

        That isn’t the reality though.

        The down side for women… well frankly I don’t much care, but them seem rather obvious

        Height being the issue it is, I doubt many men ask taller women out. Not because the men find taller women unappealing but because the much higher likely hood of being shut down

        The thinking being if he is shut down by girls closer to his own height, and if a girl who is 5foot 1 only dates men who are 6 foot plus, the 6 foot girl is only dating 7 foot men.

        Also given how short women demean short men, it’s likely taller women think even less

    2. Anonymous Reader

      Some women do see shorter men.

      Yes, Elspeth, we know that Not All Women Are Like That.
      Do you have any idea how annoying NAWALT gets after a few years?

      1. Ame

        *i mean absolutely no disrespect*

        probably about as much as hearing AWALT when we know of an exception to the general rule, even when those exceptions are like cloaked tiny needles in giant haystacks.

        but, of course, when The Ton has set the Standard so high, very few will come close to even reaching the top … so, speaking in generalities works … because he proves over and over that NAMALT! 🙂

      2. Elspeth

        Huh. I was thinking more about the my father than my mother when I used that example. NAWALT never crossed my mind because I knew my husband would be over 6 feet tall before I ever met him. I was *like that*.

        I see enough short-ish men with attractive women (and enough fat chicks with decent looking husbands, btw) to know that generalities often give way to more visceral attraction triggers than defy what “everyone knows is true”.

      1. SFC Ton Post author

        lol Elspeth is pretty legit for a girl
        She says a dumb shit from time to time, but you don’t have to read much of her writing to understand she holds her father and husband in high regard, and does so without turning a blind eye to their liabilities. And that she takes her womanly duties seriously

        There are no unicorns, and I am not in the habit of defending women but Elspeth makes the cut to post here where I generally block all lady comments

  9. Cautiously Pessimistic

    To a very real extent your MMP is even lower because physical attraction drives the whole dating and possible marriage train, then your baggage starts subtracting from your SMP.

    I was going to quibble until you added:

    Marrying her is a different equation.

    That I agree with. And really, if you’re talking to any woman you actually meet, the first point is going to be on target as well. But back in the day (or so I’ve heard) there were such things as women with MMVs higher than their SMVs. No reason it can’t be that way again, once the cash and prizes lottery is shut down.

      1. Cautiously Pessimistic

        Definitely. I’m pretty sure we’d have to go off road to get there in our lifetimes.

  10. BuenaVista

    Dating single moms is an exercise in program management. Nota bene, she’s the one scheduling the ‘development’ of the relationship in Excel.

    For that matter, so is dating married moms.

    Give them an O, they want the dough. Wait, shouldn’t *we* be compensated for superior performance?

      1. thedeti

        I never cease to be amazed at the married moms who cheat. That there are many, many more than will admit, even on anonymous surveys. A lot of men and women cheat all the time. Surveys say it’s 20 to 25% of men and women; I think it’s probably double that.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        Well 50% of the men can barely pull one piece of ass so I doubt 50% of married men can pull a second bitch.

        Now if you want to say porn equal cheating then yea it’s pretty much 100% for both

  11. BuenaVista

    I agree with Deti; the number is pushing 40-50% of women who are placing it on offer. Of course, it depends on the day, the phase of moon, whether she got enough to eat for lunch, other deep factors. The woman from St. Louis who wrote a book of interviews with married women placed the population of female cheaters at 40-50%.

    My married women friends seem to be very resentful. My theory is that a) they’re feminist and educated and working some sort of job — and making 1/3 what their husbands make. So they are living the feminist dream, but it’s a dreary, unexceptional life, and one in which they are still dependent on a man for the lifestyle they prefer. Their resentment can take the form of “I deserve better!” and that’s the point of departure for an affair.

      1. BuenaVista

        They’re all available, Ton. I had no idea. I was married 25 years without running around. I was literally oblivious, I was Mr. Clean, I ignored all the signals. Now that I’m an “eligible bachelor”, I just steal a page from the Ton playbook and call them all darling, dear or sweetheart, and holy shit. End of days is nigh.

      2. BuenaVista

        So, anyway, 50/50 I’m going back to Asia in a few weeks. If you email me the name of your bar, we’ll see if you can pick me out. (“Who’s that skinny fuck over there” will be the password I will be listening for.) I told them I need a couple of weeks to clean things up first, and a trip to the Piedmont might be in order.

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