How many guns are enough

My son in law called me today. I don’t much speak about my family like I use to. Internet folks have made that unwise. Any rate my son in law is an ok dude. West point fucker, SF officer, combat vet, engineer, MBA,  regional manger for a huge retail outfit by profession….. all around normal, everyday, upper middle class,  BMW driving “conservative”. As in pretty fucking liberal and retarded but thinks he’s a conservative because he voted for Trump and mittens and mccain. He would die if anyone called him right wing.

Not the kind of guy you would expect to worry about the future because those sorts are idealistic beyond all reason, but he’s worried.

SIL is gunned up. Nothing I would call a majorly armed household, but surely a statistical supper gun owner… which I think means 7 guns or more. I’ve found more guns then that by accident while looking for the gun I wanted. Heck, I think I built like 7 FAL’s before I was doing a good enough job to keep them for myself vs selling them so I could build more.

Today he was almost culturally enriched driving from one buiness meeting to the next. BLM was stopping traffic and harassing passengers. When he saw what was going down, he found a gap in the peaceful protesters culturally enriching the car in front of him, filled it with his sedan and got the fuck out of there.

Which is what any smart person should do. He called 911 once he was clear, 911 told him the law was already responding, and he made his meeting on time.

Any rate, we talked. About a lot of shit. He’s still not ready to leave America. Which makes him a dumbass. He thinks he can bunker up on their  4’ish acres, surrounded by other semi rural upper middle class white folks with big yards, sport sedans and mostly soybeans for neighbours. And they can for some unknowable amount of time because trouble won’t be looking for them out there. Until it is.

SIL is a combat vet. 12A and 18A, with 3 combat tours but he’s never been through a siege and he has some idea about bunkering up in his 3200 sqf, 3 car garage mcmansion…… Most days on the job your M4, 15 mags and maybe a side arm will get you through. You are with a group of guys who are armed and trained wth back up a raido call away. You don’t have to do everything yourself and I think a lot of folks would be surprised just how little shooting and how much directing and talking squad leaders and officers do.

Down to brass tacks. He asked me how many guns should he own to be ready for what’s coming.

I had two answers.

If that is a serious question, then the correct answer is getting the fuck out of Dodge and living somewhere you don’t expect to be a combat zone.

Answer #2) there is no answer.

Because records are impossible to keep and no one really remember any way, we don’t have any idea how many shots are typically fired when civilians use fire arms to defend themselves. All the various studies have huge flaws in them but most “experts” seem to agree it’s 4-5. Experts in quotes there because it’s a topic no one can be an actual expert on. To many variables, the largest variable being people don’t ever really know. As way of example, during training missions most men couldn’t accurately say how many rounds where fired until rounds remaining were counted. Let that sink in. Trained shooters in a non life threatening situation where unable to accurately guess how many rounds they fired while practicing reglaur every day stuff like clearing a few rooms. I had 10 mags on me for my 1st fire fight. I burned through 7 but could have sworn it was 2-3. and yeah I was heavy on the trigger until I settled in to the job.

Answer #2 will always remain unknowable.

I have been through countless fire fights but only one siege. Sure I have been on camps or ECP’s and what not that have been attacked but none of those lasted very long. I’ve been places that got hit nearly every day, and operations that lasted a few days with constant resupply and contact with the enemy but I have been through one balls to the walls non stop event. And that was as a PMC in Iraq.

I have no idea how many rounds I fired. My hands were raw and what not from loading mags. I stopped using my duty rifle. It was taking to much time to break down linked 7.62×51 to keep the mags loaded and they ran out of snipers. I was a dumbs ass for sticking with that rifle for so long.   Moved to  an M4 that wasnt mine, replaced a guy on a crew serve and went back to an M4 when an rpg fucked it up. Never fired my pistol. I know I got some sleep. Cant tell you how much. They were not real serious at night but they kept pressure on us. Probably just trying tomwear us down. I ate a lot. I remember 3 semi meals. Mostly just a lot of bullshit to keep from crashing.  It lasted 72 hours, give or take a few hours…. depending on which report you read and when you think the siege started. I was in contact before most guys. Nature of the job at the time and we were trying to be discriminate initially until things got out of hand. I had ammo dropped on me twice by helicopter. Cant say how many times we were resupplied. Almost all of us were injured. Generally nothing serious. But we were all cut and what not from spall. Brused and beat up from laying on cinder blocks and what not.  Lots of sprains, busted up hands, fingers, burns, bullshit in eyes, busted up ears etc etc. A few guys were hit pretty hard but not so bad it was worth risking an evac.

Point of all that  is….. this

You and your small nuclear family won’t surrive anything like a serious attempt to take your home. You don’t have the man power or resources. Heck 20 dudes and some Molotov cocktails and you are fucked.

If you think things will get that bad your plan has to be better then some lone wolf bullshit.

The 1st thing you should work on is location. (2nd thing if you don’t have a carry gun). The absolute best thing to do with trouble is avoid it.

If you are in someplace like St Louis and that one couple you’re going to need back up. Dial 911. That’s a must and helps protect yourself legally but you’re going to need friends and a plan

1 would suggest every man own an AR-15, (100) full 30 round mags, soft body armor, plate carrier, full-size 9mm with spare mag, a pocket 9mm a helmet, decent 1st aide kit etc and a couple of flashlights.

Scale it from there. Wife? Skip the rifle and 100 mags. Unless you habe the money to spend. Get her the rest of that shit 1st. Someone has to watch your back and the overall situation. Kids? Depends on the age. Have a plan to fall back into your house. A spot to make your last stand and a plan to get in the car and haul ass.

But mostly be somewhere you don’t have to worry about your home turning into a mini Alamo



26 thoughts on “How many guns are enough

  1. Ame

    before the last election i renewed my passport and got everyone else passports for christmas … just in case. we’re not able to do anything close to what you’re doing, but what i can do, i do. i try not to live in fear but to be as prepared as we possibly can … the rest i just have to trust God. it’s all too big.

    not anything at all like combat – and would never ever presume it is … but when Oldest was a baby i had to call 911 for her. i had always thought those people on the recordings were a bit over the top … till it was me calling, for my baby. i learned a lot about myself, and human nature, that day.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      I get that darlimg. I made cash a priority because it’s such an important tool. My skill set and timing let me do years of pipe hitting. Otherwise I’m fairly sure I would have the resources I do now

      A passport, 10k in cash and a glock will see you through most of life’s difficulties. Add a condo overseas and a second passport and you”d be good to go for dang near anything.

      If my family was more intelligent my entire oh shit plan would be based on leaving….and we’d already be gone…… Which would mean very little money invested in firearms and what not and a lot more cash stuff into some Panamanian bank accounts

      1. Lexet Blog

        The prob is getting your glock out of the country – unless you can fly/sail.

        I’d rather live in an unsafe shithole that’s full of violence- with a gun, than in a safe society that doesn’t allow personal ownership.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        There are places that are

        Outside of america
        Low crime
        No history of waging wars, let alone waging war on its own people
        Don’t have military’s that coould do that even if the government wanted
        With decent firearm laws.

        And by decent I mean, you can own, own a suppressor, carry concealed but not own hollow points, AR15’s, AK’s etc etc

  2. theshadowedknight

    I’m planning on finishing my AR15 build and then building it a couple more times. That and stocking up on ammo. Ammo is probably the big logistical chokepoint. It doesn’t matter how many guns you have if they run dry. I’ll eventually want about 20-30 thousand rounds each of .223 and .308, and somewhat less of 9x19mm and .45 Auto. That ought to get through just about anything.

    You make a good point about magazines. I have a bunch of them, but nowhere near enough, nor enough ammo. I’ll have to start building that up. The rest of that stuff is further out until I find a job and start making decent money. I cannot wait to get out of the fucking city. Right now, my only option is to bail if things get too bad.

    Ame, thats a good point about the passport. I need to get mine.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      That’s why I stated one ar15 and 100 full mags.

      Honestly little brother if I was you, with your schooling and all I wouldn’t be that heavily invested in firearms. I would go the get the fuck out of Dodge route.

      There are a fuck ton of really decent places that would love to have you once your degree finished. Places were you can land a decent chick and expand your blood line and places that won’t hate you becuase you are White.

      I”d rather see you fat dumb and happy with some fuck trophies for the next generation

      Baring the I would focus on (2) 9mm…. pocket pistol and full size pistol and the ar15/ 100 full mags, plate carrier etc before I did two rifles, 2 calibers.

      I know you have the. 308 already but last I are spoke you weren’t heavily invested in it and ar15 mags/ ammo is much less expensive. Which would let you get to the 100 mags quicker. Same applies for .45

      This is an eccmoinc decision above all else

      And I would do the 30 full mags and a plate carrier before and what not before I moved on to the last 70 mags.

      If you are going to be s dumb ass and stay, I would add an ak-47 and an ak-74 to the long term list, and adjust your over all ammo load out to match your budget.

      I think most folks would be floored out how common those two rounds are. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is more 7.62×39 out there them 7.62×51. And I think 5.45×39 is right under .308 in commonality

      Maybe consider some cans, especially a .22 and a can. It’s a good tool. So much so that everyone in my family has a Ruger 10/22 with a can. Regardless of age and plumbing.

      If nothing else it will keep you well fed on rabbits, cats, dogs etc etc

      1. Lexet Blog

        I’d recommend two ARs, with spare parts, particularly BCG, trigger assembly, and buffer spring.

        Why 2? No time to fix a jam when you are on your own in a pickle, defending property. Also, you have the added benefit of having something to loan to others. Make one a pistol or bcr and the other for long distance.

        But an AR is merely a suppressive weapon. If you are going up against people in armor, you need to be firing something that can penetrate it (30-06 or larger).

        Try to Keep to common rounds/nato spec. AK is bad for that reason. No real supply of rounds in the US.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        Is 7.62×39 as common as 5.56 and .22 LR?


        Is it hella common in the USA?


        Or was back when there was any ammo at all. I have not heard anyone say 7.62×39 was particularly difficult to get over the last few years and I’ve heard guys were able to pick up bulk 5.45×39 way deep into the ammo shortage

        Very few people have the skill set to mange running a heavy recoil round in the ranges that they are likely to be effective in.

        Time to break contact when you run up against someone better equipped then you. Especially if it’s multiple, better equipped people working as a team.

        There is no way on earth that can cover every possible situation on your own so running like hell when its called for is a critical skill set

      3. Lexet Blog

        It’s been nearly impossible to buy decent quantities of 7.62 for about 1.5 years. There was about a 5 year period before then when we had abundance due to surplus Russian ammo.

      4. Lexet Blog

        It’s been a long long time since I’ve seen available 556 on the shelves (except match grade rounds).

        I buy by the case. Last time I saw any was probably close to 2 years ago.

        Right now, there is massive demand for ammo, combined with broken supply chains thanks to Covid, so experience probably varies by region. (I finally saw a Pepsi product for the first time in a year a week ago)

  3. Kentucky Headhunter

    I wonder how easy it will be to actually use your passport to leave the country if we are talking about firefights in upper-middle-class neighborhoods.

    If things start getting really shitty in town we can head to my parents, who are another 10 miles out from where we are. From there its out to some in-laws farm in “where the hell is that?” County about 50 miles further out down some crummy two lane roads.

    I have the AR, but only 6 mags. I have the two pistols and a carbine, all in 9mm. Larger pistol and carbine share mags. I have a scoped deer rifle from my father that’s probably almost 50 years old that I need to clean up and start working with. Still, with the “man-power” I have, hauling ass is plan A, B, and C.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Flights would be cut but they’ll still be coming and going.

      10k will buy you a ticket and get some folks to look the other way, mess up or fix your paper work etc etc

      Plus what you’d probably do 1st is cross into Canda or Mexico… Mexcio being my 1st choice. Way easy to bribe folks down there

      1. Sumo

        I’d advice Mexico as well. Ain’t no way you’re going to get your guns into Canuckistan legally, if that matters to you at all.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        Staying strapped shouldn’t be a major concern when your dipping out across national borders

        You’re mission is to haul ass from a violent and unstable environment to one that is neither

        Then get to your bolt hole were your money goes futher

        And on that note I would carry a mix of american dollars, swiss francs, pounds sterling and euro’s

  4. Jack

    One man being well-armed will just make himself a target for a guided missile or other such technology. You will need a tri-county grassroots militia with a command structure, at least.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      Depends on how things play out.

      Shit falls apart tomorrow? Real end of days stuff? The military will be brawling over ports, rail hubs, etc etc

      But a local militia who keeps thing low key and has realistic goals like keep these two roads open, close these 4 roads, keep strangers away etc would probably have a lot of operational space.

      A militia who wants to stir other folks koolaide probably won’t last

    2. Lexet Blog

      The military would barely be able to secure their own base communities, let alone multiple cities, or supply routes between them. Not to mention the farms needed long term.

      The military doesn’t have the balls needed to pacify a large scale riot either. Whatever faction is the most brutal will win.

      Corona showed us a lot. In regards to the military, it showed us that despite undergoing the Cold War and the realistic threats of biowarfare, the military is completely unprepared to handle outbreaks on its own posts.

      1. SFC Ton Post author

        You have grossly misread how the military operates

        The relatively soft touch the military used in Iraq and the A-stan and the near on no touch at all approach the government used on BLM/ antifa is politically motivated by the very left leaning government and the very left leaning military leadership and not how the government/ military will deal with a mid-size town full of White folks flying Gadsden and Confederate flags in rural america.

      2. SFC Ton Post author

        LOL they have all the above and weapon systems that can destroy grid squres at a time. Which off sets a lack of man power. Not that there is a lack of it.

        The military doesn’t need to put boots on the ground in every square mile to commit genocide. Not to mention our military is insanely large. We have the world’s largest everything.

        After that our navy is the 2nd largest air force, our army is the 3rd largest air force with its helicopters. Our army is the world’s second largest navy with its various troop landing ships and what not

        That’s more then enough horse power to starve out huge chunks of the nation

        The politics of the military upper leadership is elitist and pretty far left.

        Their moral system allows for them to use extreme force on whatever they see as White rabble raisers and they see everyone who isn’t ashamed of being White as an extremist. That’s been the case sense at least the 90’s

        Ps, I am trying to free up your other comments

        My tablet is being an asshole right now

      3. Lexet Blog

        I’ve said elsewhere, the solution would be to create an insurgency in base communities. The military is acting against americans? Congrats, I’ll hold your wife
        And kids hostage.

  5. Liz

    We had friends over a few days ago, and Mike mentioned potential plans to “bail out”. It’s not that we think somewhere else would be better, just don’t want to watch the country we are very fond of go to hell. At any rate, he said he’s had plans for years. He has been flying out to South America for over a decade, scouting things out. He’s German-American and I guess there’s a place in Argentina that is a “little Germany”. Of course, Argentina has become a third world shyte hole, but maybe that isn’t so bad when you’re expecting 3rd world shyte hole politics. Kind of like Italy.

    1. SFC Ton Post author

      My main bolt hole ain’t fair from ther. Globally speaking

      Not Argentina. Crime rates already make it so,e version of a combat zone. …. at one point crime was so bad the government stopped publishing the numbers

      But he has a good skill set to live abroad.

      One of my key requirements was some place that didn’t have a track record of producing 5 sequential generations of combat vets.

  6. Lexet Blog

    What the fuck happened to SF?

    This guy, of all people, should know that the proper amount of firearms to own is : enough to arm your neighbors so you can become a warlord.


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